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The Russians held a fairly casual, pre-announced gathering 40 KMs from the front line and got themselves nailed. Hard.
That actually says something about the Russians. They felt safe 40 kms from the front lines because Russia could not make a pinpoint strike that far away. They assumed the Ukrainians could not, either.
Boy, were they wrong.
This ability to send missiles far behind the front has already been demonstrated. After all, Ukraine hit ships in drydock and hit command buildings at critical moments in several areas. You would think Russia would pay closer attention.
There are very few safe spots in this war. Most of the places that are really safe are in Russia.
Ukraine now says they have pushed Russia miles back from the Dnipro River. LINK
Should the U.S. be involved or supporting Ukraine in any way?
The U.S. is fortunate to be isolated on both the east and west coast by two vast oceans and surrounded by two 'friendly' neighboring countries. The only reason we got involved in WWII is because Peal Harbor (which was controversially politically staged to begin with to ignite propaganda to get us involved.) and since that time we have fought wars overseas in the name of protecting our homeland (although that's controversial too in some cases.)
With Ukraine, I do not fully believe that Putin invaded only because he felt that Biden would stand down vs Trump, but likely that something else politically changed that would give him less control over Ukraine when Biden took office. I do not support Putin's invasion, but.. ..where do we really fit into the picture with Ukraine? I am aware that Biden has long standing relations with them, but technically they are not our ally nor are they apart of NATO, however; Russia overtaking them may thwart other parts of Europe...
..meanwhile in homeland, Biden has increased interest rates as well as surged corporate tax in the name of attacking inflation, which is compounding economic damage to the U.S. economy after Covid-19 leading to massive layoffs and making it harder for middle class consumers to obtain financing for already high priced assets such as cars and housing (once again due to material and resource shortages which were result of Covid-19).. all awhile sending over $75 Billion (and potentially an additional $25 Billion) to Ukraine for support, not including the Trillions invested in infrastructure bill (bi-partisanship) and green energy ... thus inflation is not going away anytime soon and those high interest rates we're paying are atkin to defending ourselves from a grizzly bear with pebbles..
Should we be involved with Ukraine? or should we not?
Should the U.S. be involved or supporting Ukraine in any way?
The U.S. is fortunate to be isolated on both the east and west coast by two vast oceans and surrounded by two 'friendly' neighboring countries. The only reason we got involved in WWII is because Peal Harbor (which was controversially politically staged to begin with to ignite propaganda to get us involved.) and since that time we have fought wars overseas in the name of protecting our homeland (although that's controversial too in some cases.)
With Ukraine, I do not fully believe that Putin invaded only because he felt that Biden would stand down vs Trump, but likely that something else politically changed that would give him less control over Ukraine when Biden took office. I do not support Putin's invasion, but.. ..where do we really fit into the picture with Ukraine? I am aware that Biden has long standing relations with them, but technically they are not our ally nor are they apart of NATO, however; Russia overtaking them may thwart other parts of Europe...
..meanwhile in homeland, Biden has increased interest rates as well as surged corporate tax in the name of attacking inflation, which is compounding economic damage to the U.S. economy after Covid-19 leading to massive layoffs and making it harder for middle class consumers to obtain financing for already high priced assets such as cars and housing (once again due to material and resource shortages which were result of Covid-19).. all awhile sending over $75 Billion (and potentially an additional $25 Billion) to Ukraine for support, not including the Trillions invested in infrastructure bill (bi-partisanship) and green energy ... thus inflation is not going away anytime soon and those high interest rates we're paying are atkin to defending ourselves from a grizzly bear with pebbles..
Should we be involved with Ukraine? or should we not?
If Russia "annexed" Ukraine, which it most certainly would without U.S. and E.U. support, how long until they were snatching up Poland, etc.? Intentions are clear here.
If Russia becomes a powerful nation again, how long do you think it would be before Mexico would no longer be our BFF?
Wake up and smell the coffee. The idea that the U.S. will always be safe because our current neighbors are friendly is ridiculous.
As to your concern over the state of the economy. Republicans are always concerned about the economy. Until they get into power, that is. Then they run the economy right into the ground with their tax cuts for the wealthy, etc. The last Republican President to the leave the U.S. economy in better shape than he found it was Eisenhower, and he was riding a post-war boom.
But that's a discussion for a different thread. Here we are discussing Russia's invasion of Ukraine, which does not appear to be going particularly well for Russia at the moment.
If Russia "annexed" Ukraine, which it most certainly would without U.S. and E.U. support, how long until they were snatching up Poland, etc.? Intentions are clear here.
If Russia becomes a powerful nation again, how long do you think it would be before Mexico would no longer be our BFF?
Wake up and smell the coffee. The idea that the U.S. will always be safe because our current neighbors are friendly is ridiculous.
As to your concern over the state of the economy. Republicans are always concerned about the economy. Until they get into power, that is. Then they run the economy right into the ground with their tax cuts for the wealthy, etc. The last Republican President to the leave the U.S. economy in better shape than he found it was Eisenhower, and he was riding a post-war boom.
But that's a discussion for a different thread. Here we are discussing Russia's invasion of Ukraine, which does not appear to be going particularly well for Russia at the moment.
Your domino theory was wrong in Vietnam and its wrong in Ukraine.
Poland is in NATO. Poland is stronger than Ukraine. Poland is backed with nukes.
The military industrial complex over the years has used the domino theory or variations on it to push more wars and more military spending. Even before WWII there was talk of needing to take over such and such smaller country because if we didn't then a European power would which would embolden them to take over more and more until they're on our door step.
Last edited by michiganmoon; 11-22-2023 at 05:07 AM..
Should the U.S. be involved or supporting Ukraine in any way?
The U.S. is fortunate to be isolated on both the east and west coast by two vast oceans and surrounded by two 'friendly' neighboring countries. The only reason we got involved in WWII is because Peal Harbor (which was controversially politically staged to begin with to ignite propaganda to get us involved.) and since that time we have fought wars overseas in the name of protecting our homeland (although that's controversial too in some cases.)
With Ukraine, I do not fully believe that Putin invaded only because he felt that Biden would stand down vs Trump, but likely that something else politically changed that would give him less control over Ukraine when Biden took office. I do not support Putin's invasion, but.. ..where do we really fit into the picture with Ukraine? I am aware that Biden has long standing relations with them, but technically they are not our ally nor are they apart of NATO, however; Russia overtaking them may thwart other parts of Europe...
..meanwhile in homeland, Biden has increased interest rates as well as surged corporate tax in the name of attacking inflation, which is compounding economic damage to the U.S. economy after Covid-19 leading to massive layoffs and making it harder for middle class consumers to obtain financing for already high priced assets such as cars and housing (once again due to material and resource shortages which were result of Covid-19).. all awhile sending over $75 Billion (and potentially an additional $25 Billion) to Ukraine for support, not including the Trillions invested in infrastructure bill (bi-partisanship) and green energy ... thus inflation is not going away anytime soon and those high interest rates we're paying are atkin to defending ourselves from a grizzly bear with pebbles..
Should we be involved with Ukraine? or should we not?
Ukraine is a special project of the United States where the aim is to weaken (preferably to destroy) Russia. Ukraine is a tool that is being used to accomplish this. As for our problems in the homeland, who cares? The aim is to destroy Russia at any cost including destroying ourselves. As American citizens, we must make heavy sacrifices to achieve the destruction of Russia. Inflation, loss of jobs, infrastructure decline, hunger and instability must be stoically endured to achieve that noble end.
Just think, what a wonderful Christmas present the destruction of Russia would make for us. That should warm our hearts as many Americans stand without jobs and homeless around bonfires and garbage can fires trying to stay warm. They would understand that the money used to prop up Ukraine that would have otherwise have been used to help ordinary Americans and American homeland interests was well spent.
Well, Christmas is about a month away and the Ukrainians have established a bridgehead. Perhaps they will make some progress in the face of Russian thermobaric missiles exploding around them and would manage to crack through the heavy Russian defenses. One can hope. Maybe the Ukrainian Army, which is now more egalitarian than any other army in the world since it now contains women (even pregnant ones), overage men who would be more comfortable in rocking chairs, and underage boys, can manage to reach Moscow, unseat Putin, and then destroy Russia by tearing it apart. Zelensky and Biden would be so pleased. Just think about it as you warm yourself by the fire. Perhaps that would happen by Christmas?
But even if it doesn't, it would have been a good try worthy of a sturdy participation trophy. The billions of dollars sent to Ukraine would really not have been wasted. Top officials have skimmed their share of that money for themselves. Especially Zelensky who now has more than enough money to retire, and mansions in Florida and Italy, if not more (one can lose count). So don't worry about him. He will be fine if Ukraine unravels. So the money isn't really wasted. It also would have fueled our imaginations in what could have been, which alone would have made this endeavor exceedingly worth it.
In July, the Turkish president, Recep Tayyip Erdoğan, agreed to forward Sweden’s accession protocol to parliament as soon as possible after talks with the Swedish prime minister, Ulf Kristersson. But last week, Turkey’s foreign affairs committee said it was postponing its verdict, saying the matter was “not ripe” for decision.
There is uncertainty, too, around Hungary’s intentions, although Jonson said that Budapest had assured Stockholm that “they will not be the last country to ratify us”. Hungary last week said it was not ready to ratify Sweden, despite the prime minister, Viktor Orbán, having previously said approval was only a technicality.
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