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So your list of provocations is:
1) NATO expansion
2) Ukraine was shelling people in Ukraine's Donetsk
I answer these as separate topics to simplify the discussion
1) The answer is that the threat of NATO expansion does not justify killing people in Ukraine. Killing people has a very high bar for justification, and the threat of someone joining an alliance is insufficient reason to kill people.
While Russia is not happy about Nato expansion, it was not the reason for the invasion at all.
The massive attacks on the two independent Donbass republics were:
So your list of provocations is:
1) NATO expansion
2) Ukraine was shelling people in Ukraine's Donetsk
I answer these as separate topics to simplify the discussion 1) The answer is that the threat of NATO expansion does not justify killing people in Ukraine. Killing people has a very high bar for justification, and the threat of someone joining an alliance is insufficient reason to kill people.
No, it makes NATO directly responsible for the death of these people, because training them all these years, it was making them deliberately the target of the Russian army, that considered expansion of NATO to its borders as existential threat.
Putin shares the responsibility for the deaths in the South-East, since he failed to react promptly to NATO expansion and to protect South-Easterners from the advances of the Ukrainian Nationalists, ( coming originally from the Western part of Ukraine,) whom NATO supported.
Mike Kofman sat down with Nicholas Danforth to discuss Russia’s latest offensive, it’s focus, and why it has been underwhelming so far. The conversation analyzes the current state of the conflict, where it may be headed, the constraints each side may face in the coming months, and whether this year could see decisive turning points in the war.
The Bradleys are coming to Ukraine, and not a moment too soon. Let's hope Ukrainian defenders put them good use and drive the invading animals out of their country.
So your list of provocations is:
1) NATO expansion
2) Ukraine was shelling people in Ukraine's Donetsk
I answer these as separate topics to simplify the discussion
1) The answer is that the threat of NATO expansion does not justify killing people in Ukraine. Killing people has a very high bar for justification, and the threat of someone joining an alliance is insufficient reason to kill people.
Quote:
Originally Posted by erasure
No, it makes NATO directly responsible for the death of these people, because training them all these years, it was making them deliberately the target of the Russian army, that considered expansion of NATO to its borders as existential threat.
Putin shares the responsibility for the deaths in the South-East, since he failed to react promptly to NATO expansion and to protect South-Easterners from the advances of the Ukrainian Nationalists, ( coming originally from the Western part of Ukraine,) whom NATO supported.
Is that for real? Do you not realize that you just said that if a country gets assistance training its own military then that justifies invading and killing the people in that country?
Well, you're wrong.
It is not OK, not moral, and not legal to attack and kill people because they might constitute a threat someday.
While Russia is not happy about Nato expansion, it was not the reason for the invasion at all.
The massive attacks on the two independent Donbass republics were:
Which independent Donbass republics? Do you mean the separatist provinces that voted to be part of Ukraine when the USSR broke up, then subsequently polled preferring to stay in Ukraine?
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