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We warned the woke armchair generals that China was not going to let Russia lose this war.
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US warns allies at Munich that China may increase support for Russia
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CNN) The US has recently begun seeing "disturbing" trendlines in China's support for Russia's military and there are signs that Beijing wants to "creep up to the line" of providing lethal military aid to Russia without getting caught, US officials familiar with the intelligence told CNN.
While Russia is not happy about Nato expansion, it was not the reason for the invasion at all.
The massive attacks on the two independent Donbass republics were:
You mean Ukraine started an intense bombing campaign in the Donbass after Putin spent months to move 300,000 troops to surround it? Either you think we're stupid or the Ukrainians are.
You mean Ukraine started an intense bombing campaign in the Donbass after Putin spent months to move 300,000 troops to surround it? Either you think we're stupid or the Ukrainians are.
So now the narrative is that Putin began moving troops westward starting in 2014?
So your list of provocations is:
1) NATO expansion
2) Ukraine was shelling people in Ukraine's Donetsk
I answer these as separate topics to simplify the discussion
1) The answer is that the threat of NATO expansion does not justify killing people in Ukraine. Killing people has a very high bar for justification, and the threat of someone joining an alliance is insufficient reason to kill people.
Ukraine was shelling civilians in Donetsk. Killing them. So that was not a justification for Russia to defend them by attacking Ukraine?
Oh, sorry. I forgot that when Ukrainians kill innocent people that's cool. Only when Russians attack Ukrainian military forces, no matter for what reason, that's a no no. Sorry, forgot to uphold the proper narrative.
Is that for real? Do you not realize that you just said that if a country gets assistance training its own military then that justifies invading and killing the people in that country?
Well, you're wrong.
It is not OK, not moral, and not legal to attack and kill people because they might constitute a threat someday.
I'm still amused at all this meaningless talk about rules or justification.
Russia agreed to Ukraines borders many years ago in a treaty, they've invaded them now twice.
Seriously, how many of you are so devoid of history that you believe rules, treaties and so forth hold any sway with some countries?
Sad reality. Don't have a crap military and we're not even having these discussions.
On the plus side for Russia, they're sure clearing out their jails! And no, they will not be repeat offenders.
P.S> Take it if you can Russian, that's been the Euro way for millenia. *shrug* Just noting that threatening nukes, is not a sign things are going well.
I have learned that the US military destroy old stocks continually. Missiles, for example, have to be destroyed when they reach a certain age. They still work but are no longer 100% reliable. Old tanks and vehicles have to be maintained even if they won't be used at all.
It cost less to send them to Ukraine than to keep them here.
I mean, Europe is on the verge of freezing to death and deindustrializing. There will be famine/destabilization in the third-world leading to a massive refugee crisis.
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Originally Posted by Tall Traveler
This war, because it dramatically affects energy and food supplies is going to result in mass starvation and thousands freezing to death this winter
So now that we're in the mid-February and starting to see more 40+ degree days in the forecast for Ukraine, curious if you experts are still clinging to all your mass freezing and starvation prognostications.
Ukraine was shelling civilians in Donetsk. Killing them. So that was not a justification for Russia to defend them by attacking Ukraine?
Oh, sorry. I forgot that when Ukrainians kill innocent people that's cool. Only when Russians attack Ukrainian military forces, no matter for what reason, that's a no no. Sorry, forgot to uphold the proper narrative.
Some people are saying the justification for Russia's invading is civilian deaths due to the careless shelling of the breakaway regions. That doesn't make sense because Russian troops were fighting in the Donbas beginning in 2014 while assisting the people in the breakaway areas to overthrow their local government. Russia provided troops and weapons, and the fighting was done under Russian military command structure.
Basically, Russia invaded in 2014 and then apologists claimed Russia invaded because the Ukraine fought back after Russia invaded. That makes no sense.
Secondly, regarding the 2022 invasion.
Here is a chart of the civilian deaths by year in the Donbas war. https://www.statista.com/statistics/...aine-conflict/
Notice there was a great many deaths in 2014-2015, but that it tapered down to 112 in 2016 and then continued to reduce to 27 in 2019, 26 in 2020 and 25 in 2021.
The United Nations observers noted that in recent years most of the civilian deaths were due to mines and handling of ordnance, not military operations. https://www.ohchr.org/sites/default/...Ukraine-en.pdf
See page 7 for a monthly chart.
The claim that Russia had to intervene with a special military operation in 2022 due to Ukraine's government "shelling civilians" is not supported by the events.
Russia's 2022 invasion was preceded by a troop buildup that began in 2019. That was while and after the fighting had almost completely died down.
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