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This thread has devolved into something ridiculously stupid. Blackbeauty just shut up already, nobody from Pittsburgh cares or wants to have the overall population and economic influence of Philly. We fill our size niche quite well as it is thank you. You are just egging on philly homers to bash and make ignorant claims about the city because your arguments are pointless and stupid as well.
Philadelphia did not fall as far or as fast as Pittsburgh did. It fell, yeah, but Pittsburgh lost its raison d'etre in the 1980's, and had to find a new one. Only within the last five years or so has it begun to pay off.
This thread has devolved into something ridiculously stupid. Blackbeauty just shut up already, nobody from Pittsburgh cares or wants to have the overall population and economic influence of Philly. We fill our size niche quite well as it is thank you. You are just egging on philly homers to bash and make ignorant claims about the city because your arguments are pointless and stupid as well.
Why don't you just SHUT UP ALREADY! I will debate as I please. Nothing I pointed out is stupid...what's stupid is Philly Boosters that have little no facts on Pittsburgh today.
Philly has a brighter future ahead of it than Pittsburgh. Especially since Philly fell A LOT harder than Pittsburgh and had much larger obstacles to over come and is a much larger city. The amount of revitalization in Philadelphia is staggering, especially since it didn't start until the late 90's. Entire neighborhoods have been rebuilt. Entire neighborhoods are being built in old industrial zones that are no longer used. Once the city gets a new business tax (which is happening), better schools (which is slowly happening) and lowers it's crime, the city will see explosive growth.
Pittsburgh can't even keep retail downtown... Pittsburgh's growth is going to come to an abrupt halt if it can't even provide it's residents with simple life amenities.
This just proves that you know absolutely nothing about Pittsburgh at all. Living in the Philly area now, and being from Pittsburgh I can say the Pittsburgh has more revitalization going on in it's urban areas. Much more. Your whole thing about Pittsburgh and not providing its residents with simple life amenities is just another very stupid comment. First Pittsburgh is a city where much of the retail is in the city neighborhoods. I would like to see downtown be more like Center City where it is a livable and more functioning downtown other than just 9-5 corporate office space. However, the "can't provide it's residents with simple life amenities" is just beyond a stupid comment.
This is what is so obnoxious about this forum. People blabbering about cities and other urban areas they have absolutely no idea about.
but sersiously though, the revitalization of areas in Pittsburgh in places such as East Liberity, the North shore, the Strip district, the south side, Lawrenceville are amazing, and to downgrade that shows us how little you know. The amount of brown field reclamation in Pittsburgh alone is much more than Philly.
Now, Lets not even get into your comment about how Philly fell further and had more obstacles to overcome. Are you for real? I mean, seriously, is this comment really suppose to be taken seriously? WOW. I am not even going to lower myself to respond to such stupidity. Yes, the two cities had problems to overcome, and their problems share similarities and differences. But to say Pittsburgh didn't fall as hard in the 80s is just borderline retarded.
Sure that may be... but you have to understand that a lot of people who live in the city, work in the suburbs. Also, a lot of people who live throughout the metro work in the city... so what your saying is half of the people in the City don't work? LOL... they just work in the suburbs and not the city.
Sure it means Philadelphia is a far more Sprawled Metro than Pittsburgh, Pittsburgh is more centralized...and more people and businesses working outside city of Philadelphia, does not bode well for the economics of the city....and calls into question How important is the City of Philadelphia to its own Metro when the overwhleming majority of its GDP comes from outside the City????
Quote:
Originally Posted by Summersm343
Also Pittsburgh is wealthier than Philadelphia? Really? Really? Really...
I've already stated that per capita incomes Pittsburgh and Philadelphia are on par with each other.
But Pittsburgh (Allegheny county) pays far more in state taxes than Philadelphia County
Quote:
Allegheny has about 300,000 fewer people than Philadelphia County, but we've amassed a higher aggregate personal income than the state's biggest county every year since 1989. The only county producing more taxable personal income is the state's third most populous, Montgomery, in suburban Philadelphia.
Allegheny County sent $700 million in sales taxes in the last fiscal year. Philadelphia was second, but not particularly close, with $543 million.
Rittenhouse Square, Society Hill and Chestnut Hill are three neighborhoods in Philadelphia that are wealthier than ANY neighborhood in Pittsburgh. Fitler Square, Washington Square West, University City, Clark Park, Spruce Hill, Powelton Village, Cedar Park, Woodland Terrace, Queen Village, Bella Vista, Fairmount, Spring Garden, Poplar, Franklintown, Manayunk, Roxborough, and West Mount Airy are ALL neighborhoods that are just as wealthy, a little wealthier or almost as wealthy as the WEALTHIEST neighborhoods in Pittsburgh...
Can you back this up with some factual data please????? I keep asking for back up to you guys claims, yet nothing.
Can you even name the top 10 wealthiest Pittsburgh neighborhoods?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Summersm343
the square mileage of all these neighborhoods combined probably equal the total square mileage of the ENTIRE CITY of Pittsburgh. You need to understand that Philly is much larger square mileage wise than Pittsburgh... all the nice areas of Philadelphia combined are larger than the entire city of Pittsburgh. I didn't even mention any of the middle class areas...
Quote:
Total personal income in Allegheny County was about 4.5 percent higher than Philadelphia County’s $54 billion. TPI is defined as the income received by all people from all sources in a given year. It covers everything from employment wages to Social Security and welfare payments.
and yet per capita income between both cities are on par with each other
Quote:
Originally Posted by Summersm343
You are delusional. Take a deep breath. Relax. Get over your sports rivalries and except the fact that your city is number 2 in importance to the state. And like 25th in importance to the country... while Philly is in the top 10 (number 7 I believe)... and always has been and always will be.
I'm delusional but I've backed up my every claim with actual facts, something I dont see you doing....Pittsburgh is only 2nd in Population that's it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Summersm343
The GDP for PA was something around 500 billion... the Philadelphia metro (just the counties in PA) produced over 300 billion of that.... that is more than half of the ENTIRE states GDP... and Pittsburgh was 116 bill? Yeah you're right Pittsburgh is more important to this state... LOL
My claim was never more imporatant, my claim was the cities are equals in the eyes of the state....and I've backed that up....and of that 300billion only 78bn comes from the city of Philadelphia, that's doesn't say much for businesses preferring to locate in Philly...now does it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Summersm343
There has been a lack of job growth in the City of Philadelphia because of an old business tax that no longer works for modern times... it is currently being reworked though... so will be interesting to see the city's GDP once that happens... oh also they are building a high speed line from Boston to New York to Philadelphia to Washington DC.
When that happens....
Quote:
Philly to New York will take a little over 30 minutes. You know how many businesses will move to Philadelphia for the cheaper real estate? Lol.
Another pipe dream that will never come to reality, business can already move from NY to Philadelphia if they chose, I mean its still commutable (only an 1hr on the Acela)....why didn't Comcast move all those NBC franchises from NY to Philly...instead its moving them all including some Philly based ones to CT.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Summersm343
Philly has a brighter future ahead of it than Pittsburgh. Especially since Philly fell A LOT harder than Pittsburgh and had much larger obstacles to over come and is a much larger city. The amount of revitalization in Philadelphia is staggering, especially since it didn't start until the late 90's. Entire neighborhoods have been rebuilt. Entire neighborhoods are being built in old industrial zones that are no longer used. Once the city gets a new business tax (which is happening), better schools (which is slowly happening) and lowers it's crime, the city will see explosive growth.
LMAO! There's that "fact-less Philly Booster" syndrome rearing its ugly head again....."Philadelphia fell harder than Pittsburgh", you have to kidding me seriously , you lost all credibility with that one there sir.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Summersm343
Pittsburgh can't even keep retail downtown... Pittsburgh's growth is going to come to an abrupt halt if it can't even provide it's residents with simple life amenities.
So that's what makes a downtown huh...plenty of retail??? Pittsburgh is a city of neighborhoods people can go to the neighborhoods and shop.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Summersm343
I love Pittsburgh and I wish it the best. It is one of my favorite cities. Beautiful natural scenery, beautiful skyline. But it is no where near as important to this state let alone this country as Philadelphia is. IDK why you can't except that and love Pittsburgh for what it is instead of boosting it to something it's not. Pittsburgh never felt like a large city to me and that's why it attracts people. People like good mid-sized cities and some people don't like major cities like Philadelphia.
Unfortunately you know next to nothing about Pittsburgh statistically as you just proven, yet you love it.....LMAO! I could make the same claim about Philadelphia, but I'll leave it at Pittsburgh.
You Philly Boosters are some of the most "fact" deficient bunch I've ever met.
Last edited by Blackbeauty212; 06-23-2012 at 05:52 PM..
This just proves that you know absolutely nothing about Pittsburgh at all. Living in the Philly area now, and being from Pittsburgh I can say the Pittsburgh has more revitalization going on in it's urban areas. Much more. Your whole thing about Pittsburgh and not providing its residents with simple life amenities is just another very stupid comment. First Pittsburgh is a city where much of the retail is in the city neighborhoods. I would like to see downtown be more like Center City where it is a livable and more functioning downtown other than just 9-5 corporate office space. However, the "can't provide it's residents with simple life amenities" is just beyond a stupid comment.
This is what is so obnoxious about this forum. People blabbering about cities and other urban areas they have absolutely no idea about.
but sersiously though, the revitalization of areas in Pittsburgh in places such as East Liberity, the North shore, the Strip district, the south side, Lawrenceville are amazing, and to downgrade that shows us how little you know. The amount of brown field reclamation in Pittsburgh alone is much more than Philly.
Now, Lets not even get into your comment about how Philly fell further and had more obstacles to overcome. Are you for real? I mean, seriously, is this comment really suppose to be taken seriously? WOW. I am not even going to lower myself to respond to such stupidity. Yes, the two cities had problems to overcome, and their problems share similarities and differences. But to say Pittsburgh didn't fall as hard in the 80s is just borderline retarded.
Really? Pittsburgh is seeing more revitalization? Really? Practically ALL of Center City has been revitalized especially Society Hill and Old City... practically all of South Philadelphia is being revitalized from the newly revitalized neighborhoods of Bella Vista, Queen Village, Passyunk Square and East Passyunk Crossing to the up and coming sections of Graduate Hospital, Newbold, Point Breeze and reclaimed industrial areas like the Navy Yard. Also plans to revitalize all of the industrial zones along the schuylkill and rezone them commercial. Gray's Ferry is also starting to see revitalization as well as most of the Delaware Waterfront all the way from South Philly up and past sugarhouse casino.
In West Philadelphia, newly revitalized neighborhoods are Powelton Village, Clark Park, Spruce Hill, Cedar Park, Woodland Terrace, Squirrel Hill and Garden Court. Neighborhoods undergoing revitalization are Mantua, Walnut Hill, West Powelton, Parkside, West Parkside and other neighborhoods on the fringes of University City.
In North Philadelphia, newly revitalized neighborhoods are Franklintown, Fairmount, Spring Garden, Poplar and Northern Liberties. The neighborhoods seeing revitalization now are Brewerytown, Francisville, West Poplar, Spring Arts, North Central, Ludlow, Yorktown and Templetown.
The Riverwards are being revitalized... Fishtown, Olde Kensington, New Kensington, Kensington, Port Richmond.
Also Germantown and East Falls in Northwest Philadelphia are being revitalized...
that's not even mentioning all the construction in already revitalized areas.
Once again Philly has MUCH more construction and revitalization because it is a larger city and is bigger square mileage wise... I'm sorry but Pittsburgh can't match that.
That doesn't mean the revitalization in Pittsburgh ISN'T impressive because it truly is and I hope Pittsburgh continues to improve so PA can continue to have TWO great cities... and about the retail you are right the article I read was talking about downtown only... but Pittsburgh still doesn't have many high end retail stores or restaurants... not compared to Philly.
I meant Philly fell further because the crime rate was higher... the job loss was greater, the population loss was more than Pittsburgh population now, the ghettos were far larger (because Philly has larger land area)...etc.
So yes Philly did fall much harder and had much more work to do. Revitalizing a city of 58 square miles takes a lot less time than revitalizing a city of 134 square miles.
1. Chester County (Philly)
2. Montgomery County (Philly)
3. Bucks County (Philly)
4. Delaware County (Philly)
.
6. Allegheny County (Pittsburgh)
.
.
10. Berks County (Philly)
.
.
12. Butler County (Pittsburgh)
and the rest of the Pittsburgh Metro is all below that.
Philadelphia County is 44... yes I agree much of the city is very poor but Philadelphia City is Philadelphia County... Allegheny County is compromised of not only Pittsburgh but other small cities, towns and burroughs which most of the wealth is located in.
Same as Philly... most of the wealth is concentrated in the suburbs but there are a good majority of Upper-class and Middle Class neighborhoods in Philadelphia.
median household income-
Society Hill- $81,257
Rittenhouse Square- $52,935 (the amount of rentals in the area brings this median down however... Mean Household income is $115,773 and is by far the wealthiest neighborhood in the city)
Logan Square- $52,935
Chestnut Hill- $86,173
Olde City- $81,257
West Mount Airy- $63,193
Manayunk- $62, 431
Roxborough- $63,471
East Falls- $51,735
Fairmount- $52,545
Spring Garden- $52,544
Franklintown- $52,545
Fox Chase- $52,733
Somerton- $63,596
Fitler Square- $48,521
Queen Village- $47,440
Bella Vista- $47,440
Overbrook- $47,443
for times sake I won't do anymore neighborhoods
Philadelphia
47. Rittenhouse Square- Mean income- $115,773
48. Society Hill- Mean income- $107,504
49. Chestnut Hill- $101,471
Pittsburgh
50. Point Breeze- $99,669
51. Squirrel Hill- $97,553
Good enough facts for you?? Like I said Philly is MUCH wealthier than Pittsburgh. I'm not the one being a homer. You are a ridiculous hypocrite and the biggest homer I've ever seen claiming Pittsburgh comes anywhere close to Philly.
About Philly only producing $78 mill of the regions $300 mill.... really? If Philly was just removed you think the area would be able to function missing $78 mill?? You think the state would just chug along like nothing happened?
And like I mentioned before the business tax in the city is the reason most jobs are located outside of the city but A TON of Philly residents work in the suburbs and visa-versa meaning the city residents produce more of that GDP than just Philly's GDP...
Comcast, Amaroso's, Aramark, Beneficial Bank, Cigna, Crown Holdings, Lincoln National, Pep Boys, Radian Group, Sunoco, Urban Outfitters...
There are also major foreign companies located in the city...
GlaxoSmithKline, Hyundai Rotem as well as large companies from around the US... Tastykake, Kraft, Colonial Penn, PECO, Rohm and Haas....and what do you know? EVEN PNC HAS A LARGE PRESENCE IN PHILLY... THEY DO HAVE THEIR OWN SKYSCRAPER HERE
Other large institutions..
University of Pennsylvania, CHOP, Jefferson, Drexel, Temple, La Salle....
What about the US Mint? and other US government organizations within the City? What about the Navy at the Navy Yard?
Not to mention all the jobs in the tourism industry.
Last edited by RightonWalnut; 06-23-2012 at 07:09 PM..
This is only ONE neighborhood... other neighborhoods are seeing the same thing... Bella Vista, Newbold, Point Breeze, Northern Liberties, Fishtown, Kensington, Olde Kensington, New Kensington, Spring Arts, Callowhill, Brewerytown, Francisville, Walnut Hill, Germantown, Gray's Ferry, Mantua, Templetown, North Central, West Poplar, Ludlow... etc.
Sure that may be... but you have to understand that a lot of people who live in the city, work in the suburbs. Also, a lot of people who live throughout the metro work in the city... so what your saying is half of the people in the City don't work? LOL... they just work in the suburbs and not the city.
Also Pittsburgh is wealthier than Philadelphia? Really? Really? Really... Let's not even get started on the counties outside the city... especially the main line. I'll stay focused on the city. Rittenhouse Square, Society Hill and Chestnut Hill are three neighborhoods in Philadelphia that are wealthier than ANY neighborhood in Pittsburgh. Fitler Square, Washington Square West, University City, Clark Park, Spruce Hill, Powelton Village, Cedar Park, Woodland Terrace, Queen Village, Bella Vista, Fairmount, Spring Garden, Poplar, Franklintown, Manayunk, Roxborough, and West Mount Airy are ALL neighborhoods that are just as wealthy, a little wealthier or almost as wealthy as the WEALTHIEST neighborhoods in Pittsburgh... the square mileage of all these neighborhoods combined probably equal the total square mileage of the ENTIRE CITY of Pittsburgh. You need to understand that Philly is much larger square mileage wise than Pittsburgh... all the nice areas of Philadelphia combined are larger than the entire city of Pittsburgh. I didn't even mention any of the middle class areas...
You are delusional. Take a deep breath. Relax. Get over your sports rivalries and except the fact that your city is number 2 in importance to the state. And like 25th in importance to the country... while Philly is in the top 10 (number 7 I believe)... and always has been and always will be.
The GDP for PA was something around 500 billion... the Philadelphia metro (just the counties in PA) produced over 300 billion of that.... that is more than half of the ENTIRE states GDP... and Pittsburgh was 116 bill? Yeah you're right Pittsburgh is more important to this state... LOL
There has been a lack of job growth in the City of Philadelphia because of an old business tax that no longer works for modern times... it is currently being reworked though... so will be interesting to see the city's GDP once that happens... oh also they are building a high speed line from Boston to New York to Philadelphia to Washington DC.
Philly to New York will take a little over 30 minutes. You know how many businesses will move to Philadelphia for the cheaper real estate? Lol.
Philly has a brighter future ahead of it than Pittsburgh. Especially since Philly fell A LOT harder than Pittsburgh and had much larger obstacles to over come and is a much larger city. The amount of revitalization in Philadelphia is staggering, especially since it didn't start until the late 90's. Entire neighborhoods have been rebuilt. Entire neighborhoods are being built in old industrial zones that are no longer used. Once the city gets a new business tax (which is happening), better schools (which is slowly happening) and lowers it's crime, the city will see explosive growth.
Pittsburgh can't even keep retail downtown... Pittsburgh's growth is going to come to an abrupt halt if it can't even provide it's residents with simple life amenities.
I love Pittsburgh and I wish it the best. It is one of my favorite cities. Beautiful natural scenery, beautiful skyline. But it is no where near as important to this state let alone this country as Philadelphia is. IDK why you can't except that and love Pittsburgh for what it is instead of boosting it to something it's not. Pittsburgh never felt like a large city to me and that's why it attracts people. People like good mid-sized cities and some people don't like major cities like Philadelphia.
I heartily disagree that Pittsburgh "is no where near as important to this state let alone this country as Philadelphia is". You seem to forget that steel was once the lifeblood of not only Pittsburgh, but the country as well. Since the steel industry is a commonly used indicator of economic health, I'd say Pittsburgh was very important to our state and our country. Without steel, much of which was forged in Pitt, we wouldn't have had railways (which allowed the growth of our great country), skyscrapers, appliances, cars, etc. Without steel, you have a very different society.
As for today, Pittsburgh contributes to the state and the country with it's economy of high technology, higher education, medical and banking/corporate headquarters. Pittsburgh is often held up as the example of a thriving post-industrial city because of it's successes.
Philadelphia did not fall as far or as fast as Pittsburgh did. It fell, yeah, but Pittsburgh lost its raison d'etre in the 1980's, and had to find a new one. Only within the last five years or so has it begun to pay off.
Really?
Care to post proof of this? your statement flies right in the face of every single thing I've ever read about Pittsburgh. As far as I can see, Pittsburgh has avoided major economic downfalls. The housing industry in Pittsburgh never experienced the over-inflation rates of other areas and has actually seen housing value increases.
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, you lost all credibility with that one there sir. 
