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The amount of douglas you have in Guyana is ridiculous,and I would bet its more douglas than Amerindain/Black mixes and chinese/black mixes.The interior has more Brazilian and Guyanese mixes/
I think that black/east indian mix produces the most beautiful females on the planet.
Yea because you obviously don't know the history of Soca.I really don't have time to break it down but you need to do your research before you make assumptions.
Its documented that RingBang has its origins with Eddy Grant, and just because you first recorded music in the UK doesn't mean diddley. Many Jamaican artists like Bob Marley, Barrington Levy .BlacK Uhuru ,and other reggae/rocksteady artists made their first recordings in the UK doesn't mean the UK developed dancehall, . Eddy Grant is still much influential in Bajan music till this day.
I'm not going to argue about Soca with you because Trinidadian artists do have a lot of popular artists in the Caribbean, but do not dominate the Soca scene. This why artists from Barbaods,Dominica,St Lucia, Vincy,VI,etc all have their stake in Soca. Not only Trinidadian artists don't win the Soca monarch , but on the radio your not just hearing Trinidadian artist there PERIOD. Its not like Jamaicans who made dancehall are dominating dancehall and Reggae.
Trindiadian history records the Father of Soca as Ras Shorty(a Trini).Ras Shorty claims he made his first Soca song when he was on the ''Exile One'' Tour and collaborated with Lord Tokyo King of Dominica Calypso and Cadence-Lypso.Two Dominican artost helped Ras Shorty write his Cadence-Lypso song
"I PETIT" and announced that he had discovered a new beat, SO(for soul) CA(Calypso )= Soul of Calypso.Mind you this first song was written in Creole which is spoken in Dominica and Dominquens like Lord Tokyo Ras Shorty did not speak a lik of Creole.Some say Shorty first called the music Solica. Lord Tokyo and his Cadence performer were international with their music so it wasn't some small based genre.
Tom Charles and The Syncopaters were the first to develop Jump Up Music, which is way big adage in Carnival till this day.
The Mootoo Brothers (From Guyana)were popular artists in the British West Indies and played back up for many Calypso artists. including the The Mighty Lion , the king of Calypso.
Guyanese artists fused Indian instruments like Tassa with African instruments and elements before Trinidadians in their vaudeville shows that Trinidadians and other Caribbean fold took a like too.
Al Seale was also a great and legendary Latin percussionist and fused many elements of Latin loops into Guyanas Shanto music.
Chutney's roots lie in Guyana or Suriname not Trinidad. Some beleieve it was a Surinamese artists who first developed it and some believe it was the Motoo brothers.
Much of the Soca elements in Guyana today comes from Guyana's orginal music Shanto .And again Guyana plays soca from all over the Caribbean not just Trinidad or Barbados,this is why you have Guyanese artists in antiguan groups.
Que Que is a type of local fete for occasions its not traditions. Local Guyanese traditions are groups like the Cumfa practices and the Jordanites religion.
This is how I know you really lack knowledge of Guyanese culture especially Afro-Guyanese culture, I could get into how the Indians, Amerindians and East Asians live but that's another story.
And for the record Masquarades and other celebrations were big festives in guyana but I won´t get into that.
At your rate you might as well call jazz Cuban, because Cuban musicians were definitely in New Orleans and part of their musical traditions. And among the various influences which jazz musicians drew on was that of Cuba, but jazz developed in New Orleans out of the musical traditions of New Orleans.
You don't need to get into masquerade in Guyana because I already told you how important it was up to the early 60s, which is why Mash draws from TRINIDADIAN and NOT Guyanese traditions.
Kwekwe is Guyanese folk culture related to marriage rituals. These rituals drew heavily on West African influences, and indeed a West African attending a Kwe Kwe will be shocked at how similar the various stages of the Kwekwe is to their traditional marriage ceremonies. Starting with the bride arriving carried on a chair with her wedding party waving branches and flowers.
The base of most of our folk songs are from Kwe Kwe. It is as rooted in traditional Afro Guyanese culture as is masquerade, Jordanites, the pork knocker songs, and Cumfa.
Soca started in Trinidad in the mid 1970s. The person who started it was Ras Shorty. Soca sounds NOTHING like the cadence music of the 70s, which evolved into zouk and belongs to the musical traditions of the French Antilles, which culturally Dominica is. Indeed Dominicans are definitely determined to ensure that THEIR music survives and doesn't collapse under a torrent of reggae or soca.
Indeed the very use of the term "cadence lypso" should be a cue to you of Trini influences brought into the music. So indeed most claim that cadence evolved out of prior French Antillean music (heavily influenced by Haiti) when it incorporated the faster beats of Trinidad.
Do you know how French Antilleans dance by the way?
When Bob Marley went to the UK he brought with him reggae, which had already evolved in Jamaica. He was PART of that tradition, and his success in the UK made him global.
Eddy Grant BEGAN his music in the UK and he was exposed to influences and music from the London music scene. He "retired" to Barbados and developed ring bang. Ring bang sounds NOTHING like his earlier music, suggesting exposure to a different range of influences.
Just as soca captured a new generation with its harder rhythms (to compete against funk) ring bang combined Bajan style soca with Jamaican dance hall to compete against dance hall. I was actually in Barbados in 1994 when people were excited about this genre. While Eddy Grant was key to this development, he did so within the context of the Bajan music scene. Yes be proud that a Guyanese helped develop Bajan pop music, but don't link it to Guyana. Ring bang was developed to fit into the performances of artists like Gryner and the other Bajans popular in that era.
Guyanese are known to be talented musicians, ironically because our lack of a pop musical traditions means that Guyanese must be versatile. So they are known to have a command of their craft and a flexibility that not every other musician from the Caribbean has. However playing some one else's music well doesn't allow one to claim that music as yours.
Since the 90s other Caribbean islands have begun to play an increasingly important role in soca, so in 2014 Trinidadians can no longer claim that it is theirs. But Trinidadians STARTED soca. That is a fact.
I believe that I agreed with you that chutney (the folk version of it) isn't Trinidadian. What is Trinidadian is chutney soca which pulls that genre out of tradition and moves it into the commercial environment.
Provide an example of a CONTEMPORARY and POPULAR Guyanese who bases his style on shanto. I do recall that there were attempts to revive shanto in the 70s, but that didn't succeed, because Guyanese like foreign music.
If you saying Black and Indian mixes are frowned on in Guyana,/
Indian and black mixtures were frowned on by Indians until recently. Deny that if you wish but it is indeed a fact. The term "dougla" meaning bastard doesn't exactly convey acceptance does it.
They party together but when federal elections kick in both groups begin to to show disdain and animosity to one another..
Sprinkles of Afro Guyanese among Indo Guyanese in NYC and of Indo Guyanese amongst Afro Guyanese!!!
Why is that if we are all one love fest? Indeed 40% of the Guyanese LIVING in Richmond Hill/South Ozone should be black Guyanese if we are all one happy family.
Light and dark skinned Dominicans live TOGETHER. While they do have their skin color and hair texture issues they see each other as DOMINICANS.
For Guyanese, no way is that the case.
And why is it that with every election racial tension rises if we are all one happy family. Were we one happy family we wouldn't identify based on ethnicity, and we wouldn't vote based on ethnicity and we would have sent the politicians who promote ethnic divide packing.
But we don't.
By the way we don't have "federal" elections in Guyana.
Riots during elections haven't happened in years though dude. That was like the 1960s or so. ol
Ethnic tensions after the 1997 elections. Again after the 2001 elections. During the civil servants strike in 1999 there was ethnic tension. Between 2002-6 again another period of ethnic tension.
Guyana is a land of two tribes. The others watch on hoping that they don't get crushed when they fight.
Jamaicans never claimed to have made Reggaetone, and if you look at.Reggae En Español ,Congo,a nd Mejorana which are from Panama nurtured the style.
But if you paid attention to what i said it was a Guyanese artists who helped spawn Reggaetone, I didn´t say he solely developed it this is written.
Jamaicans don't even like Reggaeton. They think that it is a bastardization of Jamaican culture.
If you went to a Puerto Rican claiming that Reggaeton was spawned by Guyanese they would laugh at you and ask why is it sung in Spanish then? Just because a Guyanese might have been among the arrangers, musicians or producers doesn't make it Guyanese.
I can name loads of Caribbean people involved in R&B, rap, and jazz, but those genres come out of black American traditions.
I don't know if you know this but most Africans were happy that the CIA was involved in getting rid of Cheddi. Please don't fool yourself that all Guyanese were upset. That song "Solidarity For Ever" was sung loudly in African homes. As far there were concerned the PPP was a party run by Indians for the benefit of Indians and they see no difference 50 years later.
You are obviously a PPP supporter so accept their one sided view of Guyana.
There were always tensions between blacks and Indians. In the 19th century the British were quite happy to use them against each other to undermine the efforts of both groups to improve their working conditions. The British facilitated easier acquisition of land by Indians, but ensured that the teachers and policemen remained mainly black. They brought in the indentures to undermine the former slaves in the 1848 strike. They used blacks as scabs to undermine Indian workers as late as 1964.
Indeed middle class Afro Guyanese leaders wanted indentureship from India stopped in the late 19th and early 20th century when they feared that Indians would begin to out number blacks. Middle class Indians wanted it continue so that Indians would eventually be positioned to control the colony, should universal suffrage be implemented.
The tensions in the late 50s didn't begin because Cheddi and Burnham had a fight. Its because with self gov't, eventually expected to lead to independence the elites of both races were jockeying for power, and the masses were growing restive with each other.
It was only "benign" in the late colonial period because each ethnic group in the then British Guiana was confined to their economic and occupational space, and so competition was minimized.
Guyana certainly isn't Cyprus or Lebanon, but to pretend as if all is well is equally dishonest.
playboy playmate Nicole Narain. She is Indo Guyanese and Hawaiian.
What makes you think she is Hawaiian?Nicole Narain is 100% Guyanese.
She is the result of Afro-Guyanese and Chindian Guyanese parents. Meaning she has Indian ,Chinese,and African ancestry from Guyana.
This is a woman that is half Guyanese and half Pacific Islander.
Melabeu Cheriece (Samoan and Guyanese)
moderator cut: image removed
Quote:
Originally Posted by caribny
At your rate you might as well call jazz Cuban, because Cuban musicians were definitely in New Orleans and part of their musical traditions. And among the various influences which jazz musicians drew on was that of Cuba, but jazz developed in New Orleans out of the musical traditions of New Orleans.
Apples and oranges,first of all many New Orleaneans had Cuban roots at the time Jazz was created,on that same note many generational Aframs living in New Orleans help to bring forth Jazz. People could actually trace the syncopation, ragtime,and swing which are all birthed in the region.This analogy so contentious though because you're comparing an ethnic group starting a musical genre to a place starting a musical genre, and they are not always the same. One thing is undeniable many of the first and great Jazz artists
were Aframs, unlike Soca who had many non-Trinidadian artists in its back ground and non-trinidadian music in its background.
Quote:
Originally Posted by caribny
You don't need to get into masquerade in Guyana because I already told you how important it was up to the early 60s, which is why Mash draws from TRINIDADIAN and NOT Guyanese traditions.
That's not what I said , I said you had festivals and mass celebrations in Guyana before Mash, and Mashramani was modeled after Carnivals in general not just Trinidad. More over Masquarade which is rooted in Igbo tradition is STILL celebrated in Guyana.
Quote:
Originally Posted by caribny
Kwekwe is Guyanese folk culture related to marriage rituals. These rituals drew heavily on West African influences, and indeed a West African attending a Kwe Kwe will be shocked at how similar the various stages of the Kwekwe is to their traditional marriage ceremonies. Starting with the bride arriving carried on a chair with her wedding party waving branches and flowers.
I know what Kwe Kwe is , but its more of ritualistic celebration rather than an actual cultural practice. Trust me I know which ethnic groups its similar to it, but Guyanese music is not based off of it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by caribny
The base of most of our folk songs are from Kwe Kwe. It is as rooted in traditional Afro Guyanese culture as is masquerade, Jordanites, the pork knocker songs, and Cumfa.
That's false, Kwe Kwe is a celebration dude, that's like saying Americans celebratory music is based off 4th of July songs. Its like saying Irish River dance is based of St Patricks Day. Pork Knockers are gold searchers they have nothing to do with the music. You're wrong you just using stuff I just mentiioned to draw a bridge to Guyanese music. Many of Guyanese songs can be inspired by Queh Queh ,porknocker,and other stuff but its not based off of it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by caribny
Soca started in Trinidad in the mid 1970s. The person who started it was Ras Shorty. Soca sounds NOTHING like the cadence music of the 70s, which evolved into zouk and belongs to the musical traditions of the French Antilles, which culturally Dominica is. Indeed Dominicans are definitely determined to ensure that THEIR music survives and doesn't collapse under a torrent of reggae or soca.
Indeed the very use of the term "cadence lypso" should be a cue to you of Trini influences brought into the music. So indeed most claim that cadence evolved out of prior French Antillean music (heavily influenced by Haiti) when it incorporated the faster beats of Trinidad.
First of all you do know that Cadence-lypso is Dominica in origin right?Some of the first Soca songs that Ras Shorty claim to have made sounded like Cadencelypso ,Cadence and Zouk. 2 of the genres I just mentioned are Dominican in origin the other Zouk is very vibrant in French Caribbean influenced countries such as Dominica.. Ras Shorty was inspired by one Dominiquen artist's called Maestro and this Dominquen was going to show him some things, but he died before he could.
Later on Ras Shorty came back from his tour on the Exhile 1,he had heard some music from another Dominiquen artists like Lord Tokyo which inspired him to make record a some songs.When he recorded Ou Petit, he had it written by some Dominican artists for him ,he returned to Trinidad happy that he had something new to bring TO TRINIDAD.So its obvious that he had to bring back something from Dominica to make something to bring to Trindiad. So hope that's a key point, he already thought that Calypso was dying and many of the youth in Trinidad were leaning toward Jamaican music. Plus there countless Dominican artists that helped him out.
The other key points of Trinis claim to making Soca is mixing African rhythm with Indian music was something done way before by Guyanese like Mootoo Brothers which was a black and Indian band. Coincidentally they were always used for prominent Calypso Musicians in Trinidad. Calypso itself is said to be the forefather of Soca music to Trinidadians but obviously its not true since they took so much from musical genres like Cadence,Cadence-lypso,Zouk, Disco,Chutney,and Kaiso.
Now the thing is many West Indian countries had their own form of pre-Soca music. Ras Shorty and other people like Mighty Lion wanted other islanders to call their music Soca and genres like Guyanese Shanto,Dominica Cadence , Grenandan Caricou, and Bajan Spouge all got infused to the Soca genre. But see the thing is Soca was not dominated by Trinidadian artists as was Dancehall,Rockstead,and Reggae which are Jamaican invention were dominated by Jamaican artists.
Quote:
Originally Posted by caribny
When Bob Marley went to the UK he brought with him reggae, which had already evolved in Jamaica. He was PART of that tradition, and his success in the UK made him global.
Eddy Grant BEGAN his music in the UK and he was exposed to influences and music from the London music scene. He "retired" to Barbados and developed ring bang. Ring bang sounds NOTHING like his earlier music, suggesting exposure to a different range of influences.
Eddy Grant was a Guyanese musician that took Guyanese elements to the UK.My family knows him. Just because he was a good rock musician doesn't mean he wasn't a good Soca musician, a Jack of all Trades.
Quote:
Originally Posted by caribny
Just as soca captured a new generation with its harder rhythms (to compete against funk) ring bang combined Bajan style soca with Jamaican dance hall to compete against dance hall. I was actually in Barbados in 1994 when people were excited about this genre. While Eddy Grant was key to this development, he did so within the context of the Bajan music scene. Yes be proud that a Guyanese helped develop Bajan pop music, but don't link it to Guyana. Ring bang was developed to fit into the performances of artists like Gryner and the other Bajans popular in that era.
Tell me what Bajan musical style did he bring with him to Barbados before he came there?Eddy Grant was and still is influential to ring bang till this day. Coincidentally ring bang Soca is even made with a lot of Chutney music, which is pretty much half way Guyanese. You're still going to talk with an audacity to say Guyanese have no links to it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by caribny
Guyanese are known to be talented musicians, ironically because our lack of a pop musical traditions means that Guyanese must be versatile. So they are known to have a command of their craft and a flexibility that not every other musician from the Caribbean has. However playing some one else's music well doesn't allow one to claim that music as yours.
Its pretty much linked to the bad studios that's in Guyana and the lack of access to some equipment. Its literally the government of past PNC and the somewhat the present PPP that is stifiling the talent of Guyanese artists.
Quote:
Originally Posted by caribny
Since the 90s other Caribbean islands have begun to play an increasingly important role in soca, so in 2014 Trinidadians can no longer claim that it is theirs. But Trinidadians STARTED soca. That is a fact.
You really don't know how Soca started so how do you make that assumption?
Quote:
Originally Posted by caribny
I believe that I agreed with you that chutney (the folk version of it) isn't Trinidadian. What is Trinidadian is chutney soca which pulls that genre out of tradition and moves it into the commercial environment.
Provide an example of a CONTEMPORARY and POPULAR Guyanese who bases his style on shanto. I do recall that there were attempts to revive shanto in the 70s, but that didn't succeed, because Guyanese like foreign music.
Guyanese Soca artists from the 70s onwards till the present, made Soca music based on Shanto music.
Last edited by Marka; 09-17-2014 at 07:55 AM..
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