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Reggaeton came out of Reggae en Espanol which originated among the Panamanian descendants of West Indians. Music doesnt arise from one person. It develops out of a culture which is why reggaeton, even though very influenced by dance hall, has its own unique characteristics, which is why Jamaicans usually disown it. Just as Trinis disown what the derisively call "small island" music. While Bajan music is popular in Trinidad they dont claim it as theirs.
Musicians from any where can relocate to a country and be part of the development of music. Even though people of West Indian descent were instrumental in developing hip hop it is an African American artform.
Which neighborhoods have a notable population of Guyanese ? Besides Richmond Hill, South Richmond Hill, Ozone Park, City Line, Cypress Hills, Jamaica and Woodhaven ?
If you really believe that nonsense you must be born here. Indian and African Guyanese are a very DIVIDED people. While there is some level of friction in Trinidad there is much less tension. If you didnt have Indian family the treatment that you would receive would be different. Afro Guyanese in NYC are way more socially integrated into the other black Caribbean communities than with Indo Guyanese, and share much more culturally as well.
Both African and Indian Guyanese harbor suspicions of each other, and that is easily seen in where we live in NYC. You will almost never see a social event which is 50:50 between the two groups.
The fact that you might have some Indian family applies to you. The vast majority of Indian and AFrican Guyanese do not have family in common. And indeed many Africans feel that today's PPP is just as hostile towards them as the PPP was towards Indians under Burnham.
Antigua, St Kitts, Dominica, and Grenada have soca which sounds distinct and unique. When I hear Dutchin he can either be Trini or Bajan, depending on which song you refer to. What the islands with unique forms of soca have in common is that they are carnival islands. If not the Lenten carnival then Xmas carnival (Barbados always had Crop Over and Antigua switched their Xmas carnival to August to drum up tourism in what used to be a dead period).
Guyana has Mash, which wouldnt exist if Burnham didnt start it. Our Xmas carnival died out in the early 60s. There was some attempt to develop a unique Guyanese sound, but it didnt pick up because Guyanese like foreign music, Trinidad, Barbados, Jamaica, and the USA, and Bollywood for those who care for it.
Like I said, do you see Indo-Trinis and Afro-Trinis living in the same neighborhoods?NO, there is obviously some tension but not as bad as people make it. I did tell you its not just my indian family, Indo-Guyanese that I have come across has treated my with more respect and showed a little more love. I know other black Gts who have had the same treatment by Guyanese.
The mixed population in one census in 2002 had the numbers at 2002 had them up to 25%, keep in mind that people like me are not counted mixed there,so you know what there are many blacks and indians indeed related there.
But you know what it has nothing to do with my family or who is mixed, its about race relations there, and saying that tensions between Indians and Africans is thick in Guyana is bull****, its only in politics does it heat up. Indo-Guyanese and Afro-Guyanese do have their own distinctness,but its not a big divide.
Burnhams party PNC-R became divided by Hoyte Desmond Hoyte and Corbin. Before Burnham came into power, political parties in Guyana were not racially polarized, you had groups like the UF and UDP. Burnham himself was a PPP member but decided to start his own party because he was power hungry.Now a days vast majority of cops are PNC and don't know any one trust them or their party, real average joes know this and so do the bad men. During the phantom squad era it was blacks hired to hunt blacks down not indians. So that race black game stuff is dead.
Today many Africans don't trust the PNC groups this is why you have political parties like the AFC and GAP springing up.
Mind you I know the history of relations between of good and bad between blacks and Indians in Guyana. My family is mainly from Buxton,Anns Groove,BV,and other East Coast villages. The black side are cops and I have a lot of family on black side who took part in the riots there.
Last edited by PrizeWinner; 09-12-2014 at 09:31 PM..
Like I said, do you see Indo-Trinis and Afro-Trinis living in the same neighborhoods?NO, there is obviously some tension but not as bad as people make it. I did tell you its not just my indian family, Indo-Guyanese that I have come across has treated my with more respect and showed a little more love. I know other black Gts who have had the same treatment by Guyanese.
The mixed population in one census in 2002 had the numbers at 2002 had them up to 25%, keep in mind that people like me are not counted mixed there,so you know what there are many blacks and indians indeed related there.
But you know what it has nothing to do with my family or who is mixed, its about race relations there, and saying that tensions between Indians and Africans is thick in Guyana is bull****, its only in politics does it heat up. Indo-Guyanese and Afro-Guyanese do have their own distinctness,but its not a big divide.
Burnhams party PNC-R became divided by Hoyte Desmond Hoyte and Corbin. Before Burnham came into power, political parties in Guyana were not racially polarized, you had groups like the UF and UDP. Burnham himself was a PPP member but decided to start his own party because he was power hungry.Now a days vast majority of cops are PNC and don't know any one trust them or their party, real average joes know this and so do the bad men. During the phantom squad era it was blacks hired to hunt blacks down not indians. So that race black game stuff is dead.
Today many Africans don't trust the PNC groups this is why you have political parties like the AFC and GAP springing up.
Mind you I know the history of relations between of good and bad between blacks and Indians in Guyana. My family is mainly from Buxton,Anns Groove,BV,and other East Coast villages. The black side are cops and I have a lot of family on black side who took part in the riots there.
If Guyanese were united both races would be living in the same communities and would have a very high level of social interaction. Any one who knows anything about Guyanese in NYC knows full well that they are two DISTINCT communities, who do not live together and who pretty much IGNORE each other.
Please give examples of contexts where Indian and African Guyanese mix extensively. The reality in NYC is if a social organization is dominated by one group, it is almost totally boycotted by another. I am aware of many situations when ethnic suspicions have erupted within several of these organizations.
Obviously you are a PPP supporter so you peddle the myth that black people, in their support of Burnham are the ONLY people responsible for racial voting in Guyana.
As to the phantoms. Mercenaries for hire by Indian drug lords. Criminals battling each other.
You must harbor deep animosity towards Afro Guyanese to profile them as criminals, because this is what you are doing when you conflate Phantoms with Afro Guyanese. You tarnish an ENTIRE ethnic group.
Any way your narrative plainly indicates that you are a PPP supporter and put all the blame for Guyana's racial tensions on the PNC which was and ARE supported by Africans. You hold the PPP (and by extension Indians) as BLAMELESS for our ethnic tensions.
If this is what you believe I have NOTHING MORE TO SAY TO YOU on this matter except to say that you INSULT Guyanese of African descent by pretending as if in today's PPP run Guyana there aren't blatant attempts to exclude them. The newspaper owned by the govt, and so is therefore a PPP rag, wrote an ENTIRE EDITORIAL painting Afro Guyanese as criminals, and refused to apologize when such was demanded of them. As racist as people will claim that the USA is this would NEVER happen here.
What ever blacks might think of the PNC they turned out in large numbers to support them because they DO NOT LIKE THE PPP! And they do not like the PPP because they view it as an Indian controlled entity whose role is to abuse them as black people, much as the PNC did to Indians in the 70s and 80s.
People will get on with each other on a day to day basis, as do people of all ethnicities in NYC. But, as in NYC. so in Guyana there are tensions and distrust which divides. In NYC where Indos and Afros don't have to deal with each other, we AVOID each other, and I challenge you to prove otherwise.
In addition the mixed population is just that. Mixed. We are a land of six races and mixed people can be any combination of these. Not just African/Indian. Indeed the parts of Guyana which are most mixed are the interior locations suggesting that these are Amerindian, African and Portuguese. G/town is the other area which has a large population self identifying as mixed. The more Indian an area in Guyana is the fewer are the % of people calling themselves mixed. And indeed it wasn't that long ago that Indians used to use as a curse word "your daughter is going to marry a black man". That being the biggest shame that could befall a family.
The word "dougla" was derived from a Hindi word meaning bastard. That should indicate what they thought of the off spring of these unions.
Dominica will NEVER claim soca as they are a power house of their own music. They might claim zouk. Cadence and bouyon is Dominica music.
I wonder where Guyana can lay a claim to soca. Eddy Grant might have started ringbang in a Bajan environment but that is Bajan music. Given that Eddy Grant began his music career in the UK you might as well call ring bang British as Guyanese.
Guyana has folk traditions, kwe kwe being powerful, and then there are the chutney traditions (chutney SOCA is Trini, not chutney, you are right on that one) as well as the masquerade. But it was Trinis who developed a pop form of chutney, so have snatched it away. Guyanese didnt develop anything from its folk base. They copy Trinis and Bajans.
Go to any carnival in the Eastern Caribbean and the bulk of the music played will be local songs. Mash has mainly Bajan, and Trini soca, and usually recordings of artists from there as well.
This is very true. Guyana has not developed, expanded or tried any attempt to mainstream its folk music such as Shanto. For some reason why Guyanese love foreign music and claim it as their own or popularizes it. Again their is nothing wrong with that.
Dominica will NEVER claim soca as they are a power house of their own music. They might claim zouk. Cadence and bouyon is Dominica music.
I wonder where Guyana can lay a claim to soca. Eddy Grant might have started ringbang in a Bajan environment but that is Bajan music. Given that Eddy Grant began his music career in the UK you might as well call ring bang British as Guyanese.
Guyana has folk traditions, kwe kwe being powerful, and then there are the chutney traditions (chutney SOCA is Trini, not chutney, you are right on that one) as well as the masquerade. But it was Trinis who developed a pop form of chutney, so have snatched it away. Guyanese didnt develop anything from its folk base. They copy Trinis and Bajans.
Go to any carnival in the Eastern Caribbean and the bulk of the music played will be local songs. Mash has mainly Bajan, and Trini soca, and usually recordings of artists from there as well.
Yea because you obviously don't know the history of Soca.I really don't have time to break it down but you need to do your research before you make assumptions.
Its documented that RingBang has its origins with Eddy Grant, and just because you first recorded music in the UK doesn't mean diddley. Many Jamaican artists like Bob Marley, Barrington Levy .BlacK Uhuru ,and other reggae/rocksteady artists made their first recordings in the UK doesn't mean the UK developed dancehall, . Eddy Grant is still much influential in Bajan music till this day.
I'm not going to argue about Soca with you because Trinidadian artists do have a lot of popular artists in the Caribbean, but do not dominate the Soca scene. This why artists from Barbaods,Dominica,St Lucia, Vincy,VI,etc all have their stake in Soca. Not only Trinidadian artists don't win the Soca monarch , but on the radio your not just hearing Trinidadian artist there PERIOD. Its not like Jamaicans who made dancehall are dominating dancehall and Reggae.
Trindiadian history records the Father of Soca as Ras Shorty(a Trini).Ras Shorty claims he made his first Soca song when he was on the ''Exile One'' Tour and collaborated with Lord Tokyo King of Dominica Calypso and Cadence-Lypso.Two Dominican artost helped Ras Shorty write his Cadence-Lypso song
"I PETIT" and announced that he had discovered a new beat, SO(for soul) CA(Calypso )= Soul of Calypso.Mind you this first song was written in Creole which is spoken in Dominica and Dominquens like Lord Tokyo Ras Shorty did not speak a lik of Creole.Some say Shorty first called the music Solica. Lord Tokyo and his Cadence performer were international with their music so it wasn't some small based genre.
Tom Charles and The Syncopaters were the first to develop Jump Up Music, which is way big adage in Carnival till this day.
The Mootoo Brothers (From Guyana)were popular artists in the British West Indies and played back up for many Calypso artists. including the The Mighty Lion , the king of Calypso.
Guyanese artists fused Indian instruments like Tassa with African instruments and elements before Trinidadians in their vaudeville shows that Trinidadians and other Caribbean fold took a like too.
Quote:
The Muttoo (Mootoo) Brothers
Phil Madison's successful vaudeville formula opened up a space for other Guyanese performers and musicians such as Madame Olindie, Sam Dopee, and Lord Coffee. Guyanese calypso historian Dr Gordon Rohlehr, has chronicled the movement of the Bhagee style of music from British Guiana to Trinidad and Tobago. He described it as "very infectious." One of the famous exponents of the Bhagee style was Bill "Bhagee" Rogers (Augustus Hinds) who preferred to call the style "Shanto.
Al Seale was also a great and legendary Latin percussionist and fused many elements of Latin loops into Guyanas Shanto music.
Chutney's roots lie in Guyana or Suriname not Trinidad. Some beleieve it was a Surinamese artists who first developed it and some believe it was the Motoo brothers.
Much of the Soca elements in Guyana today comes from Guyana's orginal music Shanto .And again Guyana plays soca from all over the Caribbean not just Trinidad or Barbados,this is why you have Guyanese artists in antiguan groups.
Que Que is a type of local fete for occasions its not traditions. Local Guyanese traditions are groups like the Cumfa practices and the Jordanites religion.
This is how I know you really lack knowledge of Guyanese culture especially Afro-Guyanese culture, I could get into how the Indians, Amerindians and East Asians live but that's another story.
And for the record Masquarades and other celebrations were big festives in guyana but I won´t get into that.
Reggaeton came out of Reggae en Espanol which originated among the Panamanian descendants of West Indians. Music doesnt arise from one person. It develops out of a culture which is why reggaeton, even though very influenced by dance hall, has its own unique characteristics, which is why Jamaicans usually disown it. Just as Trinis disown what the derisively call "small island" music. While Bajan music is popular in Trinidad they dont claim it as theirs.
Musicians from any where can relocate to a country and be part of the development of music. Even though people of West Indian descent were instrumental in developing hip hop it is an African American artform.
Jamaicans never claimed to have made Reggaetone, and if you look at.Reggae En Español ,Congo,a nd Mejorana which are from Panama nurtured the style.
But if you paid attention to what i said it was a Guyanese artists who helped spawn Reggaetone, I didn´t say he solely developed it this is written.
If Guyanese were united both races would be living in the same communities and would have a very high level of social interaction. Any one who knows anything about Guyanese in NYC knows full well that they are two DISTINCT communities, who do not live together and who pretty much IGNORE each other.
Please give examples of contexts where Indian and African Guyanese mix extensively. The reality in NYC is if a social organization is dominated by one group, it is almost totally boycotted by another. I am aware of many situations when ethnic suspicions have erupted within several of these organizations.
Obviously you are a PPP supporter so you peddle the myth that black people, in their support of Burnham are the ONLY people responsible for racial voting in Guyana.
As to the phantoms. Mercenaries for hire by Indian drug lords. Criminals battling each other.
You must harbor deep animosity towards Afro Guyanese to profile them as criminals, because this is what you are doing when you conflate Phantoms with Afro Guyanese. You tarnish an ENTIRE ethnic group.
Any way your narrative plainly indicates that you are a PPP supporter and put all the blame for Guyana's racial tensions on the PNC which was and ARE supported by Africans. You hold the PPP (and by extension Indians) as BLAMELESS for our ethnic tensions.
If this is what you believe I have NOTHING MORE TO SAY TO YOU on this matter except to say that you INSULT Guyanese of African descent by pretending as if in today's PPP run Guyana there aren't blatant attempts to exclude them. The newspaper owned by the govt, and so is therefore a PPP rag, wrote an ENTIRE EDITORIAL painting Afro Guyanese as criminals, and refused to apologize when such was demanded of them. As racist as people will claim that the USA is this would NEVER happen here.
What ever blacks might think of the PNC they turned out in large numbers to support them because they DO NOT LIKE THE PPP! And they do not like the PPP because they view it as an Indian controlled entity whose role is to abuse them as black people, much as the PNC did to Indians in the 70s and 80s.
People will get on with each other on a day to day basis, as do people of all ethnicities in NYC. But, as in NYC. so in Guyana there are tensions and distrust which divides. In NYC where Indos and Afros don't have to deal with each other, we AVOID each other, and I challenge you to prove otherwise.
Everyone is cool until election time comes around and everyone votes along racial lines. PPP became racially divided thanks to the USA and the Kennedy administration and Great Britain which helped destabilize race relations in Guyana during the height of the Cold War were Guyana was viewed as a 2nd Cuba. But here in NYC I do not see Blacks and Indians mix to much thanks to politics back home. Blacks live in Brooklyn and the Indians live in Queens. My family racially mixed so we choose the Bronx. Actually my family never liked either PPP or PNC, but a Portuguese backed group called United Force. But it was the USA and UK because of Cold War politics of the day helped destabilize racial conflict in Guyana. USA supported regimes of Papa Doc, and Trujillo who were anti Communist, Supported regimes of Brazil, Argentina, Chile against Communism and so forth. USA had to do something about an Independent Guyana which was on the road to Marxism.
If Guyanese were united both races would be living in the same communities and would have a very high level of social interaction. Any one who knows anything about Guyanese in NYC knows full well that they are two DISTINCT communities, who do not live together and who pretty much IGNORE each other.
Please give examples of contexts where Indian and African Guyanese mix extensively. The reality in NYC is if a social organization is dominated by one group, it is almost totally boycotted by another. I am aware of many situations when ethnic suspicions have erupted within several of these organizations.
Obviously you are a PPP supporter so you peddle the myth that black people, in their support of Burnham are the ONLY people responsible for racial voting in Guyana.
As to the phantoms. Mercenaries for hire by Indian drug lords. Criminals battling each other.
You must harbor deep animosity towards Afro Guyanese to profile them as criminals, because this is what you are doing when you conflate Phantoms with Afro Guyanese. You tarnish an ENTIRE ethnic group.
Any way your narrative plainly indicates that you are a PPP supporter and put all the blame for Guyana's racial tensions on the PNC which was and ARE supported by Africans. You hold the PPP (and by extension Indians) as BLAMELESS for our ethnic tensions.
If this is what you believe I have NOTHING MORE TO SAY TO YOU on this matter except to say that you INSULT Guyanese of African descent by pretending as if in today's PPP run Guyana there aren't blatant attempts to exclude them. The newspaper owned by the govt, and so is therefore a PPP rag, wrote an ENTIRE EDITORIAL painting Afro Guyanese as criminals, and refused to apologize when such was demanded of them. As racist as people will claim that the USA is this would NEVER happen here.
What ever blacks might think of the PNC they turned out in large numbers to support them because they DO NOT LIKE THE PPP! And they do not like the PPP because they view it as an Indian controlled entity whose role is to abuse them as black people, much as the PNC did to Indians in the 70s and 80s.
People will get on with each other on a day to day basis, as do people of all ethnicities in NYC. But, as in NYC. so in Guyana there are tensions and distrust which divides. In NYC where Indos and Afros don't have to deal with each other, we AVOID each other, and I challenge you to prove otherwise.
Dude you need to be quiet and stop speaking lies. You don't know jack bruh, just because I give the reality if PNC no longer having a strong base in the black Guyanese community means I am a PPP supporter,NO.Only dinosaurs who have nothing to do in Brooklyn are worrying about the PNC.
I already told you Indo-Trinidadians generally don't live in Brooklyn neighborhoods where Afro-Trinis are. Indo-Trinis tend to live around other Indians and even Indo-Guyanese neighborhoods, these are facts.
But you know what, I can name places like Jamaica ,Queens Village,Floral Park, and South Ozone where you do have a great amount of black Guyanese and Indo Guyanese living together.Please stop talking out your rear end.
One thing you're going to learn is that pole riding someone else sack does not go in by real badmen in Guyana.And just because a cultural practice like your music or customs is not big or popular in the Caribbean doesn't mean its there.Just because a black person doesn't support the PNC doesn't mean they are PPP supporters. The Fynemen crew were very known to go aganst PNC cops and supporters. Most of his crew were warring with other cops who were black. The Phantom squad were composed mostly of blacks , and so it has nothing to do with Indians looking to wipe Guyanese blacks out.
You being a nerd reading not knowing whats going on the ground are ignorant to a lot ,everyone knows the phantom squad was mostly made of blacks. And Fynemen Crew had to fight coon-PNC-based-Black cops and the squaddies.
For the record they weren't mercenaries they were ex cops and cops that were PNC oriented that decided to work for PPP Drug lords,so what does that say about PNC supporters who would work for the PPP for money? OK then.
PNC never was the face of blacks in Guyana, this is why you had groups like the WPA pop up. Even know PNC is not that big in power. They need to align with APNU to gain a foothold.
Playing the blame game is bull**** because real blacks(shottas or not) know PPP and PNC are both people to worry about. And mind you the PPP in power still holds less seats in the National Assembly than when PNC was in power(with Burnam) meaning, the PNC has more of a level playing field especially with AFC in power.And David Hinds ran the PNC in the ground he sold the party out when chose to spy on people for the PPP.PNC killed blacks ask about Walter Rodney and Father Durke.
So just because i don't like the PNC doesn't mean I ain't black or am I the only black to do so.
Get your facts straight you have lowself esteem as a person of Guyanese(if you are) and don't seem to know the country's history.Stop playing the blame game.
Last edited by PrizeWinner; 09-13-2014 at 12:47 AM..
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Jamaicans never claimed to have made Reggaetone, and if you look at.Reggae En Español ,Congo,a nd Mejorana which are from Panama nurtured the style.
