Coronavirus in Massachusetts (Boston: credit, house, asbestos)

[massnative71]

Originally Posted by GeoffD

Where was that? My fiancee got her first jab in December. There weren't many hospital staff who didn't and those were mostly CNA-level or lower.


I think you're using revisionist history. My opinion in September 2020 was that I didn't want to take a vaccine pushed through before the election before the safety and efficacy data was available. There's a reason why the FDA approvals process exists and you don't vaccinate hundreds of millions of people without running through the process. You'll recall that the Orange Cheeto was all worked up in a lather because the FDA wouldn't violate their process and approve the vaccines before the trials concluded.

Originally Posted by htfdcolt

That too is being taken out of context. The full context was--the fear of Trump overruling his agencies, and rushing something to market before Nov 3, to influence the election. That's what prompted the FDA head to go on record prior, to state that no trial safety reviews would be rushed, and for politicians like Cuomo & Harris (the only two I'm aware of), to then state that they wouldn't trust a vaccine that was rushed without such due process having taken place.

By Dec 2020, leaders on *both* sides were being given the vaccine...in stealth or in public.

No it's not revisionist history and it's not being taken out of context. I'm talking about real life people here. People who literally said, "I will not take Trump's vaccine". No provisions. No strings attached. No "before it goes through whatever process". No ifs ands or buts.


Don't waste your time trying to defend the hypocrites.

[htfdcolt]

Originally Posted by massnative71

No it's not revisionist history and it's not being taken out of context. I'm talking about real life people here. People who literally said, "I will not take Trump's vaccine". No provisions. No strings attached. No "before it goes through whatever process". No ifs ands or buts.


Don't waste your time trying to defend the hypocrites.

I don't know of any such people personally. Everyone I know couldn't wait to get the vaccine as early as possible. My stance--who cares, let Trump take 110% of the credit for developing it if he wants.

I would wager that anyone who *did* think so early, has long since come around and gotten vaxxed. So those folks ain't the problem.

[msRB311]

People have also made their points that anyone is unvaccinated and unmasked is low class, low income, uneducated. And anyone who did get a vaccine and wears a mask lives in affluent area and has a high paying job.

[GeoffD]

Originally Posted by msRB311

People have also made their points that anyone is unvaccinated and unmasked is low class, low income, uneducated. And anyone who did get a vaccine and wears a mask lives in affluent area and has a high paying job.

There's a massively high correlation in Massachusetts between median household income and vaccination rates. I pull the state spreadsheet pretty much weekly looking at the miserable results around me. The blue chip suburbs all have extremely high vaccination rates.

[msRB311]

Originally Posted by GeoffD

There's a massively high correlation in Massachusetts between median household income and vaccination rates. I pull the state spreadsheet pretty much weekly looking at the miserable results around me. The blue chip suburbs all have extremely high vaccination rates.

Why is that when the shot is free? The people not getting it are just dumb?

[mdovell]

Originally Posted by GeoffD

There's a massively high correlation in Massachusetts between median household income and vaccination rates. I pull the state spreadsheet pretty much weekly looking at the miserable results around me. The blue chip suburbs all have extremely high vaccination rates.

Although I can certainly understand that there are those that probably are working from home that figure because they're not exposed to anyone that they can go without having the vaccine. I'm a hybrid and just started a job we're actually I would be terminated if I did not have the vaccine by September 9th. It's fine by me I had it way way before I even applied for the job.

Generally speaking you are correct in that hire a fluency generally means a greater concern for health. You can see this with real low-level things like smoking. Outside of a fine cigar once in a blue moon you hardly ever see anybody that's rich smoking. The majority of smokers tend to be in a lower class. On the opposite take a look at gyms and people that own home Jim's you're probably not going to find poor people with a gym membership or full weight set.

Personally I still wear a mask when I see a large amount of people. Recently I was in Virginia Beach and there was a place I walked in for breakfast and I walked right out because only the wait staff was wearing masks that was filled to capacity (probably 50) I had dinner at a place that had less than half that.

I also view capacity in terms of fire safety. I was in Shiner back in 2008 and a one point was that a market with a huge tent that was a bit tight. I was wondering what would have happened if the tent caught fire. At the same point a friend of mine almost was at the station nightclub in RI back in 03.

Of course safety can be argued to be open-ended but you have to make somewhat an even attempt given your circumstances

[GeoffD]

Originally Posted by msRB311

Why is that when the shot is free? The people not getting it are just dumb?

I think there is a broad spectrum of reasons. They've all been covered here many times. People working hourly jobs with no sick time hear stories of people feeling ill for several days after getting vaccinated. If you're living paycheck to paycheck, that's a financial catastrophe. The population in blue chip suburbs is older and higher risk. They're more likely to get vaccinated than younger people living in poor areas. Some of it is simply your peer group. If your peer group has a bunch of people who say there's no way they're getting vaccinated, you follow along. Before Delta, few people under 50 got sick enough to be hospitalized and pretty much nobody died. There wasn't much risk for skipping the vaccine if you're in that demographic. The math is somewhat different now with Delta.

[lrfox]

Originally Posted by massnative71

No it's not revisionist history and it's not being taken out of context. I'm talking about real life people here. People who literally said, "I will not take Trump's vaccine". No provisions. No strings attached. No "before it goes through whatever process". No ifs ands or buts.


Don't waste your time trying to defend the hypocrites.

I can honestly say that I don't know of any instances of this personally. And I have some people with fairly extreme viewpoints on both ends of the spetrum in my circle (a guy who posted pics inside the capitol on 1/6, a woman who demanded that we boycott Wayfair because they're shipping children to rich liberals, a woman who is advocating that we don't assign gender to animals, and a guy who believes there's an organized genocide against black people and the police have been charged with carrying it out). So I've generally been exposed to the full spectrum of crazy and this one is new to me. You'd have to first get people that far left of center to believe that it's "Trump's vaccine," and that's not going to happen. Most view Trump as an obstacle in the COVID fight and any headway made is credited to the CDC, WHO, Fauci, etc. rather than Trump or his administration. Even the furthest reaches of the anti-Trump camp and the most extreme progressives I know have been on board with the vaccine all along.

That said, there are certainly plenty revisionists who will ignore the fact that Trump was all aboard the "let's pull out the stops and get this vaccine going" train. It's not the easiest thing for me to give the guy credit for much and there were plenty of questionable calls throughout the pandemic, but he was consistent and supportive of the vaccine. The antivax conservatives (and they're hardly the only antivax contingent) are sort of on their own with the theories.

[msRB311]

Trump didn't create the vaccine. Not wanting to take it because he was in office at the time it started getting created is stupid.

[htfdcolt]

Originally Posted by msRB311

Trump didn't create the vaccine. Not wanting to take it because he was in office at the time it started getting created is stupid.

Agree, and I don't think there are many, if any, like that 8+ months into its availability. There's no doubt that that Warp Speed de-risked the whole scaleup investment, allowing that to proceed in parallel to the development & approvals. Otherwise, we might still be waiting for commercial scale production today.