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I respectfully disagree with you Big Cat. Columbia has the bones of a big city moreso than a large college town like Athens, Georgia or Gainesville, Florida. Not to mention there's more going for it. Columbia became Columbia because of it being named the next state capital. Then came along little South Carolina college shortly afterwards. USC certainly has certainly imprinted it's existence on Columbia's identity but Columbia isn't there because of USC.
On a different note, Columbia and its metro as a whole look and operates like a car centric city. If you measure from one end of Columbia's sprawl to the western edge of the city of Lexington (Red bank), it's vast. If Columbia continues growing the way it is (and all indications show that it's not going to slow down any time soon), it will continue to sprawl just like Atlanta and Charlotte.
Lastly, there's not the opposition to Columbia keeping it's character (a medium sized city) like you see in cities like Charleston or Savannah and wanting to the keep that certain charm. I don't think there's any sort of opposition to anything Columbia is becoming, is there? I'm not aware. I think if anything people are rooting for Columbia to fill in and became the premier city thats been lying dormant for so long.
Putting Atlanta and Charlotte to the side, if I were to say what Columbia could become in our lifetimes, I could certainly see it turning into an Austin, Texas. Flagstate university, liberal, big sprawl and big traffic.
I disagree because if you look at the demographics and take away Ft. Jackson and USC what do you have? That is a great portion of our employment and the reason a lot of people are even here. You have those employed by ft. Jackson and retirees. Then, you have to look at those employed by USC and how much influence it has on the local government. Also, have you seen downtown during the day in the summer? It’s almost a ghost town compared to when school is in. Our skyline won’t grow going into the Vista because of height restrictions in that area. It won’t grow going towards USC because they want to keep that area preserved(a 5 story student housing project was turned down). North of Elmwood is also a cutoff point and all in between are churches and blocks of historic property. West Columbia doesn’t even want to become what Columbia is now. So Yes, if you look at Columbia from the standpoint of land mass then it rivals those cities you mentioned, but like I said there’s plenty of opposition to Columbia becoming a city filled with high rises everywhere. The actual downtown area we have to work with is no where near as much as Atlanta or Charlotte. I am fine with that though because if someone wanted to live in a large metro why move to Columbia? If anything I would say our potential is more on track of Huntsville with a max potential of becoming something similar to Raleigh. We shouldn’t bring Atlanta or Charlotte into the conversation because that’s comparing apples to oranges. Also, Austin has metro population of 2.3 million which is over three times more than Columbia. They were also in the conversation for a possible destination for the next NFL expansion team. We are not the same.
I disagree because if you look at the demographics and take away Ft. Jackson and USC what do you have? That is a great portion of our employment and the reason a lot of people are even here. You have those employed by ft. Jackson and retirees. Then, you have to look at those employed by USC and how much influence it has on the local government. Also, have you seen downtown during the day in the summer? It’s almost a ghost town compared to when school is in. Our skyline won’t grow going into the Vista because of height restrictions in that area. It won’t grow going towards USC because they want to keep that area preserved(a 5 story student housing project was turned down). North of Elmwood is also a cutoff point and all in between are churches and blocks of historic property. West Columbia doesn’t even want to become what Columbia is now. So Yes, if you look at Columbia from the standpoint of land mass then it rivals those cities you mentioned, but like I said there’s plenty of opposition to Columbia becoming a city filled with high rises everywhere. The actual downtown area we have to work with is no where near as much as Atlanta or Charlotte. I am fine with that though because if someone wanted to live in a large metro why move to Columbia? If anything I would say our potential is more on track of Huntsville with a max potential of becoming something similar to Raleigh. We shouldn’t bring Atlanta or Charlotte into the conversation because that’s comparing apples to oranges. Also, Austin has metro population of 2.3 million which is over three times more than Columbia. They were also in the conversation for a possible destination for the next NFL expansion team. We are not the same.
The point wasn’t that Columbia is Austin. It’s that the cities have similar profiles and Austin provides a nice framework to follow for cities like Columbia.
You are simply incorrect about there being no one downtown but students. I’m well past student age and have lived here for the better part two decades. I’ve seen the growth, I’ve also seen the disappointments. Columbia is much more than a college town. To say otherwise is to speak counterfactually.
It’s fine if people don’t like cities and prefer the suburbs. No one cares to change anyone’s opinion on that. But can we stop demanding that cities be like suburbs because that’s what we’ve done in the past?
Right now where I live in the NE, there is no practical way for me to take the Comet. As far as I can tell, no dedicated parking lots to park then take the Comet. It certainly doesn't come all the way out to Lake Carolina. Right now, I have not seen more than 1 person on the Comet at anytime I see it in the NE. I just don't see anyone choosing to use the bus to go downtown when they could simply drive, since we would have to drive to a bus stop anyway. And I can't imagine anyone wanting to leave their vehicle unattended all day while they go downtown.
When I lived in DC, I could walk easily to the Metro and I never needed a car. I just don't see Columbia ever getting there.
Most of the folks I see riding the bus in the NE seem to be coming from lower income older inner suburban areas or parts of the City traveling to service sector retail jobs along Two Notch as opposed to shoppers or leisure travelers... I have seen people with fast food uniforms and what not waiting at those stops.. but not in large numbers. On Forest Drive however; I see people with bags coming from the Wal Mart and the Shopping Center out there and there are usually plenty of carts etc around the bus stop which also indicates the same. So I think those folks are also likely coming from the outer rim of the older sections of the City and maybe have transferred in downtown to get out there.. That Walmart/Shopping Center along with the similar complex on Garners Ferry seem to attract "shoppers" while the long slog to the NE seem to be people working out that way.
I can envision a Commuter Bus running from Harbison, NE, and Lexington running into the city during the AM and PM rush from a designated parking lot and people taking advantage of that to go into the City. But it would likely be a handful of stops before going directly downtown for it to be even remotely attractive. Gas prices may have to stay consistently high (which isnt likely especially with telework becoming more of an option) and the city would need to stop building garages downtown but that is always a catch 22.
I can also see something along the lines of a circulator around some of the downtown neighborhoods that connect them with Five Points, Downtown, the Vista, Vista West, Canalside USC and maybe Bull Street for those folks that want to be able to eat, drink and not have to drive and find parking especially as infill creates more urban population in intown neighborhoods.. but Uber and Lyft may make that even problematic.
The point wasn’t that Columbia is Austin. It’s that the cities have similar profiles and Austin provides a nice framework to follow for cities like Columbia.
You are simply incorrect about there being no one downtown but students. I’m well past student age and have lived here for the better part two decades. I’ve seen the growth, I’ve also seen the disappointments. Columbia is much more than a college town. To say otherwise is to speak counterfactually.
It’s fine if people don’t like cities and prefer the suburbs. No one cares to change anyone’s opinion on that. But can we stop demanding that cities be like suburbs because that’s what we’ve done in the past?
I know what the point was. He stated that he could see Columbia turning into a city like Austin within our lifetime which I completely disagree. I don’t see Columbia growing three times it’s size within my lifetime especially with Greenville/Spartanburg sitting in prime position below the mountains, Tennessee, Charlotte, and Atlanta. Then, you have Charleston which is steadily growing and has already surpassed Columbia and is internationally known as one of the best cities in the world. You also have Myrtle Beach which is constantly in the top 5 of top fastest growing metros in the country(would grow even more when I73 is constructed).
I didn’t say no one is downtown, I was making a sarcastic comparison to downtown traffic when school is in compared to when school is out. If you’ve lived here for the past 2 decades then yes you should of certainly of seen growth but to compare it to the growth of major city when we aren’t even the top growing city in a very rural state is way too optimistic.
Also, why is the term “college town” or “college city” looked at so negatively? When I mention Columbia out of town most people react by saying “Gamecocks”. I love Columbia for all of it’s conveniences which are similar to that of a college town. I just don’t think it’s realistic to live in a small metro and expect everyone that lives there to commute and want it to be big metro. If that were the case they would of chosen a larger metro. You have those that are leaving the larger cities so that they can have the freedoms to move about as we do and to have affordable living. Why would you want to take away your luxuries when it’s not called for? There are more cities Columbia’s size in the nation than there are big cities. Every city isn’t meant to be that dense and if it were a lot of those currently here would probably leave.
Right now where I live in the NE, there is no practical way for me to take the Comet. As far as I can tell, no dedicated parking lots to park then take the Comet. It certainly doesn't come all the way out to Lake Carolina. Right now, I have not seen more than 1 person on the Comet at anytime I see it in the NE. I just don't see anyone choosing to use the bus to go downtown when they could simply drive, since we would have to drive to a bus stop anyway. And I can't imagine anyone wanting to leave their vehicle unattended all day while they go downtown.
When I lived in DC, I could walk easily to the Metro and I never needed a car. I just don't see Columbia ever getting there.
If I ran the bus system I’d tighten the spread and have a lot more frequency close in and tell Lake Carolina people they live too far out for the bus and if they want to ride it move closer.
But you're making my point. Columbia will never be Atlanta and it seems the people saying we need to reduce parking and have more walkability are viewing Columbia as it is on the verge of becoming Atlanta or Charlotte some day. Columbia is built like a small city/college town and that is where it will lie for our lifetime. Even if it were to some day become an attractive city for major businesses, there are too many oppositions that will want it to keep it's character.
Remember American Cities were walkable and transit filled but we bulldozed them to cater to cars and now those same cars are choking and killing our cities. If Columbia plan like Atlanta then it will be nothing but traffic and more urban sprawl. Just look at Lexington County for a big example. urban sprawl, no density, car dependent, no bike friendly or walkability and no transit. that's not a sign of progress that's a sign of failure. All that spawl bankrupts cities and small towns.
Look up this Youtube Channel called Not Just Bikes and City Beautiful. if you want a better understanding of what we are talking about.
long story short more walk bike transit friendly towns cities etc. are also much much much more profitable and sustainable. roads aren't sustainable. parking lots aren't sustainable and to have that mindset of well we can't do this because (insert excuse here) instead of saying here's what we can do to make the city more sustainable, then yeah Columbia will never achieve it's goals.
I’ve been saying it for 40 years. ‘Bout sick of my own damn self. But leaders have finally started speaking the language themselves.
I finally caught on about 5 years ago myself. I use to be Highway hungry. hell im still a Roadgeek that I understand that its not sustainable.
example when I went to Charlotte with a local transit advocate. the freedom I felt of us just parking at the 485 Light Rail Station and taking the Lynx into Uptown and the Gold Line Street Car around was amazing. we not only did way more stuff in the city that day than we ever would if we would of spent time and money looking for parking instead of just enjoying ourselves. and the trains was packed. came rush hour it was shoulder to shoulder in the train. more proof that its wanted and how quickly I wish we had that in columbia because I know a lot of people would ride something like that knowing they can save time and gas and be able to get places around the area.
we just need leaders to start putting more money into transit, Walk and Bike for the city.
Remember American Cities were walkable and transit filled but we bulldozed them to cater to cars and now those same cars are choking and killing our cities. If Columbia plan like Atlanta then it will be nothing but traffic and more urban sprawl. Just look at Lexington County for a big example. urban sprawl, no density, car dependent, no bike friendly or walkability and no transit. that's not a sign of progress that's a sign of failure. All that spawl bankrupts cities and small
Which American cities were walkable and transit filled? It sure wasn't Columbia, SC. Again, you are trying to compare our small city to cities that are more than 4-5 times our size. Lexington, is a result of poor planning. Just like hardscrabble, all of those developments should have garnered better highway planning way before this point. Walking, biking, buses, and trains in Lexington to go where exactly?
I'm not against walkability but I think things should be more practical for our area. Not now or any time in the next 60 years will we face any of the challenges associated with cities as large as Atlanta. Instead, we should have parking garages but they should be multipurposed. There's been plans for a downtown hotel to be built on top of an existing garage. We could also have garages that have retail on the ground floor such as the one on Assembly. A developer could decide to build condos atop one of existing garages. The only issues with parking that I think we can all agree on is there are too many surface lots. If we could get rid of some of those spots and force parking into garages then fine, ut saying we should all want to be on a packed train like you were in Charlotte is laughable.
Incremental, contiguous development is how it was supposed to be. It’s how it was long ago, and it’s how it can be again. And the people living in denser areas with existing urbanized infrastructure have to be made to sit down and shut up when new housing is proposed in their neighborhoods.
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