Cleveland Development Discussions (Marion, Westlake, Solon: where to live, smog, relocate to)

[ferraris]

Is there any news on updating the timing and frequency of service to Cleveland?

4x daily towards Chicago, 2x daily towards NYC, and 1x towards both Boston and DC sounds good on paper, but all of the trains depart Cleveland between ~2am and ~6am.

That's if I am reading the Lakeshore Limited page correctly, that it arrives 3x a night in each direction. They should probably just call the Boston and NYC lines by different names.

[bjimmy24]

Originally Posted by ferraris

Is there any news on updating the timing and frequency of service to Cleveland?

4x daily towards Chicago, 2x daily towards NYC, and 1x towards both Boston and DC sounds good on paper, but all of the trains depart Cleveland between ~2am and ~6am.

That's if I am reading the Lakeshore Limited page correctly, that it arrives 3x a night in each direction. They should probably just call the Boston and NYC lines by different names.

It takes about 18 hours to get to Boston on Amtrak and costs comparable to a plane ticket. Just awful. You can even drive that route 9 hours quicker.

[ferraris]

Originally Posted by bjimmy24

It takes about 18 hours to get to Boston on Amtrak and costs comparable to a plane ticket. Just awful. You can even drive that route 9 hours quicker.

Oh for sure the long haul trips aren't worth it to most people, but there are lots of other destinations along the way.

If these trains were in the day time and ran a little more frequently, I would see value in them for shorter trips. They aren't bullet train speed, but it's not too much worse than driving.

1:28 to Erie
2:15 to Toledo
3:03 to Buffalo
3:09 to Pittsburgh
4:10 to Rochester
6:46 to Chicago

With our current overnight trips, the only people who are going to ride it are those who are forced to due to a lack of options.

[216facts]

Potential good news for UC and the Opportunity Corridor, looks like Canon is considering a site near CCF.
From NEOtrans: https://neo-trans.blog/2022/12/09/ca...-at-cleveland/

Canon already has a significant R&D operation in Mayfield Heights, they bought QED which made the MRI coils. I figured they would want their Healthcare HQ near that, perhaps not. UC is a better spot no doubt, the number of medical imagers within walking distance is insane.

[216facts]

Nice summary of developments either planned or in process. From NEOtrans: https://neo-trans.blog/2023/01/02/wh...y-see-in-2023/

[ohioaninsc]

I don't understand why some oft these websites get so upset at companies like Medical Mutual leaving downtown for a more convenient location for their workers...downtown is not the easiest place to drive to and park at when you live out in places like Solon or Beachwood or Strongsville or Brecksville or North Olmsted or a number of other places...MMO decided that being right off 480 in Brooklyn, in a newly renovated building made more financial sense for their company and employees, especially since many of their employees are now remote working from home...now that so many folks are doing that and companies are finding that they are still just as productive and their people are happier, this new reality is not going to change...so imo, as long as the company stays in the area, it shouldn't make a difference whether they are in downtown or out in the suburbs.

[216facts]

Originally Posted by ohioaninsc

I don't understand why some oft these websites get so upset at companies like Medical Mutual leaving downtown for a more convenient location for their workers...downtown is not the easiest place to drive to and park at when you live out in places like Solon or Beachwood or Strongsville or Brecksville or North Olmsted or a number of other places...MMO decided that being right off 480 in Brooklyn, in a newly renovated building made more financial sense for their company and employees, especially since many of their employees are now remote working from home...now that so many folks are doing that and companies are finding that they are still just as productive and their people are happier, this new reality is not going to change...so imo, as long as the company stays in the area, it shouldn't make a difference whether they are in downtown or out in the suburbs.

I think the big complaint is with ever - expanding suburbs that continue to stretch infrastructure out to the hinterlands. Particularly painful for Cleveland, consider that the metro population was around 3M in 1970 and is still about that same number today, 50 years later. But the infrastructure footprint is way bigger today than it was in 1970 when there were 700k people living in Cleveland proper (380k today.) Infrastructure like water lines, sewer lines electrical power distribution, cable/telephone/internet/fiber, garbage collection, fire protection, police, schools, etc. all have to stretch out physically over longer distances or provide duplicative services (police, fire, government, etc.) So we bear a tax burden and price burden for all of this, somebody pays, and that somebody is us.

On the other hand, suburbanization has been going on for over 100 years now and has provided a high standard of living where families can flourish and procreate. Less procreation going on in urban areas actually, the baby booms happen in the burbs. A huge benefit to any country that wants a future.

So I see both points.

[TheProf]

Originally Posted by 216facts

I think the big complaint is with ever - expanding suburbs that continue to stretch infrastructure out to the hinterlands. Particularly painful for Cleveland, consider that the metro population was around 3M in 1970 and is still about that same number today, 50 years later. But the infrastructure footprint is way bigger today than it was in 1970 when there were 700k people living in Cleveland proper (380k today.) Infrastructure like water lines, sewer lines electrical power distribution, cable/telephone/internet/fiber, garbage collection, fire protection, police, schools, etc. all have to stretch out physically over longer distances or provide duplicative services (police, fire, government, etc.) So we bear a tax burden and price burden for all of this, somebody pays, and that somebody is us.

On the other hand, suburbanization has been going on for over 100 years now and has provided a high standard of living where families can flourish and procreate. Less procreation going on in urban areas actually, the baby booms happen in the burbs. A huge benefit to any country that wants a future.

So I see both points.

It's one thing for a company, preferably a smaller one, to prefer a suburban office and decide to build an office there -- personally, I prefer downtown because of its density of activities and retail AND its convenience by both public transportation and car (freeways to many suburban points, including Solon, and others)... I really don't know what that other poster is talking about.

But what I hate most is the constant poaching of substantial downtown businesses such as Medical Mutual or Eaton. So we weaken downtown while contributing to urban sprawl. This really sucks imho.

[216facts]

Originally Posted by TheProf

It's one thing for a company, preferably a smaller one, to prefer a suburban office and decide to build an office there -- personally, I prefer downtown because of its density of activities and retail AND its convenience by both public transportation and car (freeways to many suburban points, including Solon, and others)... I really don't know what that other poster is talking about.

But what I hate most is the constant poaching of substantial downtown businesses such as Medical Mutual or Eaton. So we weaken downtown while contributing to urban sprawl. This really sucks imho.

I think what I hate the most is the development of large destination shopping centers like Legacy Village and Crocker Park. To me that's the double whammy of eating up green space in the suburbs, and pulling people away from downtown / local shopping options. All one can do is wait about 20-30 years until the front end loaders and dump trucks arrive - again - this time to roto-till it back under like Randall Park.

Although that's a bit unfair, it is amazing to see some of these malls last as long as they have. Summit Mall in Akron is 58 and still going strong. I can remember being in downtown Akron's Polsky's and seeing the sidewalk window displays - little did we know at the time that the suburban malls were about to kill the downtown shopping experience.

[bjimmy24]

Originally Posted by TheProf

It's one thing for a company, preferably a smaller one, to prefer a suburban office and decide to build an office there -- personally, I prefer downtown because of its density of activities and retail AND its convenience by both public transportation and car (freeways to many suburban points, including Solon, and others)... I really don't know what that other poster is talking about.

But what I hate most is the constant poaching of substantial downtown businesses such as Medical Mutual or Eaton. So we weaken downtown while contributing to urban sprawl. This really sucks imho.

I hate working in a suburb. Thankfully I only have to go 2x a week. It sucks. If I worked downtown I'd probably go 4x per week. Can't stand the boredom of the suburban office environment.