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I don't have to read your previous posts. With every new post you make it contradicts the God's Word.
If it were the same in all dispensations then what was the point of Passover? Passover was their atonement for past sins. Without atonement they were damned. Look at Nadab and Abihu, they disobeyed God and didn't do what God instructed them to do. At Passover, fire blazed forth from the Lord’s presence and burned them up, and they died there before the Lord. And all they did was disobey. Comes to show you have to do as God commands or you shall surely die. Therefore, your stance on grace through faith in all dispensations completely contradicts the OT. Especially if you say "through faith in the Messiah" because the Messiah had not yet come. Your views are very confusing. Nothing ever adds up and the verses you quote always contradict other scriptures.
They disobeyed because they did not believe. Unbelief leads to disobedience.
ROM 9:6 "Not as though the word of God has taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:"
HEB 3:17 But with whom was He grieved forty years? was it not with them that had sinned, whose carcases fell in the wilderness?
HEB 3:18 And to whom swore He that they should not enter into His rest, but to them that believed not?
HEB 3:19 So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.
HEB 4:1 Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.
HEB 4:2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: butthe word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
They had the Gospel looking forward preached to them but did not believe. Though they could not be "born again" at that time yet the Spirit would have been with them to help them obey as He was with King David and all those of faith who spoke of faith and the Spirit. Jesus said to His disciples, "The Spirit who is with you shall be in you." And as you know that happened on the day of Pentecost.
As far as receiving the free gift of eternal life, it is by grace through faith alone in Christ alone.
Works belong to the area of the believer's spiritual life after having been saved.
Ephesians 2:8-10 makes this clear.
Eph. 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9] not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.
Verses 8 and 9 address the issue of eternal salvation. Verse 10 applies to the believer's spiritual life.
Ephesians 2:10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.
Do I believe in works? Yes. Absolutely. But not as a requirement for receiving and keeping what is stated to be a free gift. You do not work to earn a free gift.
Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Let me rephrase that... Do you believe in doing "works" in order to be saved? Because the scripture says that faith without works is dead. IMO I don't see how someone can justify they are truly saved through faith because if you don't have faith AND works you are dead.
If you don't believe faith without works is dead, then are these scriptures wrong? (I'm just curious. Just trying to get your point of view)
Also, since you consider yourself already saved and there's nothing you can do to take that away, do you sin? Do you repent? And do you think sin could send you to hell even if you believe grace through faith will save you?
James 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. 11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law. 12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty. 13 For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment. 14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, 16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit? 17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. ... 24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified (to be freed, righteous), and not by faith only. 25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way? 26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
They disobeyed because they did not believe. Unbelief leads to disobedience.
Are you saying everyone who sins doesn't believe? Because sin is disobedience. We sin because we are flesh. If I sin it's not because I don't believe. I'm just kind of curious how unbelief is the cause of sin. Some sin can be caused by unbelief, but I don't think unbelief is the primary reason for sin. You'll need to help me understand your view a little better...
St. Paul said he was working out his salvation with fear and trembling so I think I need to do the same, I am way weaker in that department than St. Paul was.
Are you saying everyone who sins doesn't believe? Because sin is disobedience. We sin because we are flesh. If I sin it's not because I don't believe. I'm just kind of curious how unbelief is the cause of sin. Some sin can be caused by unbelief, but I don't think unbelief is the primary reason for sin. You'll need to help me understand your view a little better...
No, an unbeliever or a believer can sin but Hebrews says that those in the wilderness did not enter His rest because of unbelief. Not resting in Him leads to sin.
A believer more often than not, in my opinion sins because he lacks Grace by not seeking in prayer to have Gods will. He lacks Gods' will by letting the cares of the world and other things to choke away the Word. Faith can be very general or vibrant by being well connected.
Vibrant faith nullifies/renders dead the inordinate desires of the flesh. This is the goal we often fall short of but nevertheless now abides faith, hope and love to put deliberate sin behind us. What is hope if all is realized already, so therefor our hope is that if we fail even seven times in a day yet the Lord in His mercy will pick us up and we will learn to fail less. It is written, "Blessed are they who hope in His mercy." This is the way of growth and if you do not think so then show me the perfect man/women.
Prayer or just daily "Be still and know that I am God" and sometimes fasting and prayer is the cure. As I have said often times, Grace is given to do the will of God and where Grace abounds to do Gods' will, sin will not have dominion over you.
I don't have to read your previous posts. With every new post you make it contradicts the God's Word.
If it were the same in all dispensations then what was the point of Passover? Passover was their atonement for past sins. Without atonement they were damned. Look at Nadab and Abihu, they disobeyed God and didn't do what God instructed them to do. At Passover, fire blazed forth from the Lord’s presence and burned them up, and they died there before the Lord. And all they did was disobey. Comes to show you have to do as God commands or you shall surely die. Therefore, your stance on grace through faith in all dispensations completely contradicts the OT. Especially if you say "through faith in the Messiah" because the Messiah had not yet come. Your views are very confusing. Nothing ever adds up and the verses you quote always contradict other scriptures.
As I said, salvation is the same in all dispensations. Abraham was justified by believing the promises of God. The animal sacrifices were types of Christ's sacrifice on the Cross. In John 3:14 Jesus relates how just as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness (Numbers 21:8) even so must He be lifted up, so that whoever believes will in Him have eternal life. To be saved from dying from the poisonous snake bites those who were bitten had only to look at the bronze serpent on the standard.
The Passover which Israel observed pictured the Passover lamb who is Jesus.
No, I don't contradict the Bible. And your refusal to look at my prior posts indicate that you have no desire to understand what I'm saying.
"Blessed are they who hope in His mercy." This is the way of growth and if you do not think so then show me the perfect man/women.
I never implied anyone was perfect. And I never implied that we didn't need grace or faith. My question to Mike555 was his view on grace and faith alone to be saved. I never intended to imply anything else.
Quote:
Prayer or just daily "Be still and know that I am God" and sometimes fasting and prayer is the cure. As I have said often times, Grace is given to do the will of God and where Grace abounds to do Gods' will, sin will not have dominion over you.
I believe this is true. Ever since I fully committed myself to Him and not this world, my life has been sin-less. Not sinless, but less sin. Even if I haven't sinned, I still repent. My flesh still has the desires of this world and the world often tempts me with my past indulgences. But through a faithful prayer life and daily repentance, I have not given myself over to the desires of the flesh and sin has become foreign to me. I'm not perfect, by any means! I need to work harder on my fruits of the spirit!
No, I don't contradict the Bible. And your refusal to look at my prior posts indicate that you have no desire to understand what I'm saying.
UUUUMMMMM... Did you not read post #242? I did read your post. AFTER you edited your previous post and included your post #. Your original response to me did not have the post # and I wasn't going to go digging through 200+ posts just to find your posts. I felt like you could have just answered my question, that would save time and confusion since I wouldn't have to go rummaging. It has NOTHING to do with not trying to understand you. So, I'd like to clear that up! I DID read your post after you gave me the post # AND I am trying to understand your view. So go to post #242 where you will see my questions about your view.
As far as receiving the free gift of eternal life, it is by grace through faith alone in Christ alone.
Works belong to the area of the believer's spiritual life after having been saved.
Ephesians 2:8-10 makes this clear.
Eph. 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9] not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.
Verses 8 and 9 address the issue of eternal salvation. Verse 10 applies to the believer's spiritual life.
Ephesians 2:10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.
Do I believe in works? Yes. Absolutely. But not as a requirement for receiving and keeping what is stated to be a free gift. You do not work to earn a free gift.
Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JBrown0830
Let me rephrase that... Do you believe in doing "works" in order to be saved? Because the scripture says that faith without works is dead. IMO I don't see how someone can justify they are truly saved through faith because if you don't have faith AND works you are dead.
If you don't believe faith without works is dead, then are these scriptures wrong? (I'm just curious. Just trying to get your point of view)
Also, since you consider yourself already saved and there's nothing you can do to take that away, do you sin? Do you repent? And do you think sin could send you to hell even if you believe grace through faith will save you?
James 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. 11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law. 12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty. 13 For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment. 14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, 16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit? 17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. ... 24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified (to be freed, righteous), and not by faith only. 25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way? 26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
I specifically stated that I do not believe in doing works to be eternally saved. How is it that you did not understand that?
Over and over I have explained that the dead faith of which James spoke was not a non existent faith, but a non-productive faith which results in a non-productive spiritual life. It has nothing to do with eternal salvation. It has to do the quality of the believer's spiritual life.
James is talking about being a doer of the word instead of just being a hearer of the word. He is talking about having a productive spiritual life as opposed to a non-productive spiritual life. But the non-productive believer is still eternally saved.
As for whether I believe sin can cause a believer to lose his salvation, you will have to read my prior posts. But since you said on another post that you don't have to read my prior posts you will never know.
As for the personal question, it's none of your business.
Okay, after posting this I noticed your new post - #248, in which you said you did read my post. So to answer your question, sin cannot cause a believer to lose his salvation. Christ paid for every sin the believer will ever commit. The believer will be disciplined for sin, but he cannot lose his salvation.
As for whether I believe sin can cause a believer to lose his salvation, you will have to read my prior posts. But since you said on another post that you don't have to read my prior posts you will never know.
As for the personal question, it's none of your business.
Are you always this grumpy?? Does somebody need a hug?? LOL. Seriously... Bring it down a notch, you act as if everyone is out to get you. I'm trying to understand you but every time I ask a question you get all defensive. And I'm not sure how my question was personal. But ok, if you wanna be Mr. Grumpy pants that's fine by me. xoxo*insert smilie with a hug*xoxo
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