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Oh Mike, the immortality of the soul is the oldest of all lies thrust upon humanity for the last 6000 years. Matthew 10:28 does say that the soul is immortal. That text is basically saying, "you may be able to kill me, but you can never kill my belief in Christ" (or whatever it is a person believes in).
To the contrary. Whether one is a believer or an unbeliever, the soul is immortal. The real person is the soul. The unbeliever is dichotomous, having body and soul only. The believer is trichotomous, having body, soul, and human spirit. It is the human spirit which is created by God the Holy Spirit when a person believes in Christ for salvation. To the human spirit, God then imputes His very own eternal life and His perfect righteousness. God then pronounces that person justified. The unbeliever on the other hand has only body and soul. The soul is the real person. And the soul survives the death of the body.
Matthew 10:28 means exactly what it says. Only by allegorizing the Bible can you come up with the asinine definition you gave the passage.
Matthew 10:28 ''And do not fear those who kill the body (physical death), but are unable to kill the soul (the soul survives the death of the body); but rather fear Him (God) who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell (gehenna). And this is exactly what happens at the end of the Millennium as per Revelation 20:11-15. As Revelation 20:11-15 shows, the unbeliever has been resurrected and is standing before Jesus at the Great White Throne judgment, and about to be cast into the lake of fire. The unbeliever (his soul) had been in hades. But at the end of the Millennium his soul comes out of hades and joins his resurrected body. Now the unbeliever, body and soul will begin his eternal, or everlasting if you must, sentence in the lake of fire.
As Revelation 19:20 shows, the beast and the false prophet, both human, will have already been in the lake of fire for a thousand years, in conscious torment, before Satan and before the rest of unbelieving humanity is thrown in there to join them forever.
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Mike, can you please give me a single text that uses the phrase "immortal soul"? Save your time no such text exists. There is no truth in the lie of eternal torment, there is only the gross distortion of God's character.
That is the same impotent and jackass argument that people use to try and disprove the trinity and the rapture. They say ''show me where it says 'trinity' ''. ''Show me where it says 'rapture' ''. The concepts of the trinity and the rapture and the immortal soul are clearly set forth in the Scriptures. One example was given above.
Revelation 20:10 'And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
'Forever and ever' is the translation into the English of the Greek phrase 'eis tous aionios ton aionon.' It is the emphatic use of the word aionios and is the strongest possible way of expressing in the Greek the concept of unending duration.
The following is from Alan Gomes; Associate Professor of Theology at Talbot School of Theology, who quotes two other Greek experts:
Excerpt:
The Duration of Punishment in Revelation 14:9-11; 20:10. In the most emphatic language possible, we are told that the torment is unending. When we considered Matthew 25:46 above, we noted that aionos can, in some contexts, qualify nouns of limited duration. (Though, as we also observed, the context of Matthew 25 demands that we take aionios in its unlimited signification there.) But here, we find the emphatic forms eis aionas aionon and eis tous aionas ton aionon ("unto the ages of the ages"). This construction is only used to describe unending duration. As Sasse points out, the "twofold use of the term [aionios]" is designed "to emphasize the concept of eternity."[51] The fact that the forms used are plural in number further reinforces the idea of never-ending duration. Speaking of the Greek construction in this verse, the great biblical commentator R. C. H. Lenski observes: "The strongest expression for our `forever' is eis tous aionan ton aionon, `for the eons of eons'; many aeons, each of vast duration, are multiplied by many more, which we imitate by `forever and ever.' Human language is able to use only temporal terms to express what is altogether beyond time and timeless. The Greek takes its greatest term for time, the eon, pluralizes this, and then multiplies it by its own plural, even using articles which make these eons the definite ones."[52] CRI Journal - CRJ0085A
That article by the way was written to refute the false doctrine of annihilationism.
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And another text that states everlasting destruction.
2 Thessalonians 1:5-10 (New International Version)
5All this is evidence that God's judgment is right, and as a result you will be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which you are suffering. 6God is just: He will pay back trouble to those who trouble you 7and give relief to you who are troubled, and to us as well. This will happen when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven in blazing fire with his powerful angels. 8He will punish those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. 9They will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the majesty of his power 10on the day he comes to be glorified in his holy people and to be marveled at among all those who have believed. This includes you, because you believed our testimony to you.
I have already shown in post #50 that 'destuction', translated from 'Apollumi' does not mean cessation of existence, but means eternal ruin and uselessness.
Excerpt:
Apollumi as it relates to men, is not the loss of being per se, but is more the loss of well-being. It means to ruin so that the person (or thing) ruined can no longer serve the use for which he (it) was designed. To render useless. The gospel promises everlasting life for the one who believes. The failure to possess this life will result in utter ruin and eternal uselessness (but not a cessation of existence). Romans 2:9-12 Commentary
It is emphatically clear, IN THE ORIGINAL LANGUAGES that the unbeliever will spend eternity in conscious torment in the lake of fire.
Dewdrop93:
I can only imagine the love I will feel for my child. It will be greater, stronger, and purer than any love I can now imagine. I would do anything for this child that I don't even know yet.
Luke 11:13 - "If you then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him!"
Yet the ET'ers would have us believe this same, loving Father would actually torture His own forever. Wake up, your being deceived ET'rs.
No. I put God before my husband and if I had children I would put God before them. When you love God with all your heart, soul and mind, this comes naturally.
Luke 11:13 - "If you then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him!"
Yet the ET'ers would have us believe this same, loving Father would actually torture His own forever. Wake up, your being deceived ET'rs.
If you are not willing to sacrifice for your children, what love do you have for them? And if you are not willing to do that, do you really know God?
1 John 4:7 Dear friends, let us love one another, for love comes from God. Everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God. 8Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love.
Love is God's greatest command; the greatest expression of love is to sacrifice yourself for another. That is what God is telling us. That is what we all need to learn.
Luke 11:13 - "If you then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him!"
Yet the ET'ers would have us believe this same, loving Father would actually torture His own forever. Wake up, your being deceived ET'rs.
To the contrary. The unbeliever is NOT one of God's children. Only the believer is a child of God BY ADOPTION.
Gal 3:26 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.
Romans 8:15 For you have not received a spirit of slavery leading to fear again, but you have reveived a spirit of adoption as sons by which we cry out, ''Abba! Father!''
that people use to try and disprove the trinity and the rapture. They say ''show me where it says 'trinity' ''. ''Show me where it says 'rapture' ''. The concepts of the trinity and the rapture and the immortal soul are clearly set forth in the Scriptures. One example was given above.
Two words: Plato, Zoroastrianism.
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Originally Posted by Mike555
Apollumi as it relates to men, is not the loss of being per se, but is more the loss of well-being. It means to ruin so that the person (or thing) ruined can no longer serve the use for which he (it) was designed. To render useless.
To the contrary. The unbeliever is NOT one of God's children. Only the believer is a child of God BY ADOPTION.
Gal 3:26 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.
Romans 8:15 For you have not received a spirit of slavery leading to fear again, but you have reveived a spirit of adoption as sons by which we cry out, ''Abba! Father!''
Well good ,since we are not one of his children, then we have to worry about his punishment. It only applies to his kids.
Say you could rewind time, and make it so your unbelieving son or daughter 'found the light' and got into Heaven instead of you - but it could only happen if you told God you wanted it to happen. You'd suffer in hell for eternity, but either way you'd still be on a different side of the gulf. I bet most people will say 'no' because, they will say, they love God more than their child (and the point of this thread is not to say there's anything wrong with that) and being with the Lord is more important. But, the catch is, if you chose not to go through with it you'd be mentally tormented by the fact your child was in excruciating pain in some 'lake of fire' for ever (God wouldn't wipe away any tears or wipe your memory). Would you still do it? And what's say God gives you a third option, that he just snuffs you out and niether of you would get to Heaven. Would you rather this third option rather than have your own flesh and blood being poked by demons (to use a cartoonish metaphor) and despairing in some spiritual darkness even if you got to go to Heaven?
And what about if we took it further, what about a village of starving African villagers? Would you undergo this punishment so this village of 200 can escape being damned? What about 2,000, 200,000 people? Would anything be worth the sacrifice for you?
This is the only biblical answer:
Christ commanded us to follow Him and His commandments (Luke 6:46 "Why do you call me, 'Lord, Lord,' and do not do what I say?").
So if you are in heaven, you must be following His commandments.
His commandments are to love God, love one another, and love your enemies.
What is the greatest expression of love? Self-sacrifice. (John 15:13 Greater love has no one than this, that he lay down his life for his friends).
Therefore all residents of heaven would automatically wish to do as Christ commanded and sacrifice themselves for those who are in torment.
You better rethink your belief system if you are not willing to sacrifice yourself to save another (especially your own child ).
Christ commanded us to follow Him and His commandments (Luke 6:46 "Why do you call me, 'Lord, Lord,' and do not do what I say?").
So if you are in heaven, you must be following His commandments.
His commandments are to love God, love one another, and love your enemies.
What is the greatest expression of love? Self-sacrifice. (John 15:13 Greater love has no one than this, that he lay down his life for his friends).
Therefore all residents of heaven would automatically wish to do as Christ commanded and sacrifice themselves for those who are in torment.
You better rethink your belief system if you are not willing to sacrifice yourself to save another (especially your own child ).
And the corollary is this scenario:
If you have given up your salvation so your child could be free of eternal torment, would your child then do the same to save you? (naturally he must because he is now in heaven and would follow Christ's commandment of love).
Hopefully one can see the absurdity of the "eternal torment/God who commands love" paradigm.
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