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This is faulty hermeneutics. It would behoove you to rethink what you have just said here. It is very inconsistent.
His messengers are flames of fire. (Psalm 104:4.)
Don't you know that saints shall judge angels? Don't you know that saints shall judge the world? ( I Corinthians 6:2,3. )
Reconciling things in HEAVEN (Colossians 1:20)
All of creation waits for the saints. All of creation waits for liberation. (Romans 8:19)
Revelation 5:13. Then I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and under the earth and on the sea, and all that is in them, singing: "To him who sits on the throne and to the Lamb be praise and honor and glory and power, for ever and ever!"
His messengers are flames of fire. Don't you know that saints shall judge angels? Don't you know that saints shall judge the world?
Reconciling things in HEAVEN
All of creation waits for the saints. All of creation waits for liberation.
Revelation 5:13. Then I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and under the earth and on the sea, and all that is in them, singing: "To him who sits on the throne and to the Lamb be praise and honor and glory and power, for ever and ever!"
I bet most people will say 'no' because, they will say, they love God more than their child (and the point of this thread is not to say there's anything wrong with that) and being with the Lord is more important.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Missy.Rivers
For the love of humanity, I hope that is not true. That makes me very sad.
Sorry, but Jesus is quoted in Matthew 10:37-39 as saying
37"Anyone who loves his father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; anyone who loves his son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me; 38and anyone who does not take his cross and follow me is not worthy of me. 39Whoever finds his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life for my sake will find it.
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God is Sovereign and somtimes it is hard for us to understand. But we are to put God first
Sorry, but Jesus is quoted in Matthew 10:37-39 as saying
37"Anyone who loves his father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; anyone who loves his son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me; 38and anyone who does not take his cross and follow me is not worthy of me. 39Whoever finds his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life for my sake will find it.
********************
God is Sovereign and somtimes it is hard for us to understand. But we are to put God first
You have to know him first.
God is love.
The greatest of these is love (is faith the greatest? Nope!)
Love never fails!
Love your enemies so you will be JUST LIKE YOUR FATHER!
^^^^^All scripture.
Last edited by herefornow; 10-13-2010 at 07:44 PM..
Say you could rewind time, and make it so your unbelieving son or daughter 'found the light' and got into Heaven instead of you - but it could only happen if you told God you wanted it to happen. You'd suffer in hell for eternity, but either way you'd still be on a different side of the gulf. I bet most people will say 'no' because, they will say, they love God more than their child (and the point of this thread is not to say there's anything wrong with that) and being with the Lord is more important. But, the catch is, if you chose not to go through with it you'd be mentally tormented by the fact your child was in excruciating pain in some 'lake of fire' for ever (God wouldn't wipe away any tears or wipe your memory). Would you still do it? And what's say God gives you a third option, that he just snuffs you out and niether of you would get to Heaven. Would you rather this third option rather than have your own flesh and blood being poked by demons (to use a cartoonish metaphor) and despairing in some spiritual darkness even if you got to go to Heaven?
And what about if we took it further, what about a village of starving African villagers? Would you undergo this punishment so this village of 200 can escape being damned? What about 2,000, 200,000 people? Would anything be worth the sacrifice for you?
Interesting theorhetical situation. In my case. Definitely. With two special needs children, I would feel compelled. No doubt about it. I would trade and try to forget all the reasons why with the simple thought being, they have suffered enough? They could have my place in a nano second.
Besides, being lapsed Catholic doesn't ever alleviate the guilt. Just the way we are. I'm okay with that. Just seems like the right thing to do.
One could certainly expand that logic to strangers as you have illustrated. This would be a more compelling challenge. How would one apply what seems like the same logic? I guess, one would have to.
This is probably a similar feeling those men under Picket at Picket's charge at Gettysburg must have felt. Knowing fully that to march forward meant almost certain death, they marched anyway. The pressure of being shamed was too great. Hard to believe but, there are people who do things like this demonstrating incredibly bravery under incredibly hard circumstances.
That said, it's fair to ask the morality of that decision. Does one sacrifice for the greater good? To be his brother's keeper until the end if you will. I would humbly suggest those reading this that are far more versed in theology than I could ever hope to might be able to offer up a more sound reasoning and plausible answer given the circumstances you have described.
Me? I would just boil it down to something you would have to do under the direct eyes and question of God. To not do so would, perhaps, be more difficult than to fall on the sword?
To be fair, it's much easier to hypothesize here from the comfort of my own keyboard but, one would like to think that one would/could be brave enough to lay down their life for another human being. To do one decent act in one's existence of this magnitude simply to prove and peform a moral deed of this caliber has it's merit, it's time, it's place?
Say you could rewind time, and make it so your unbelieving son or daughter 'found the light' and got into Heaven instead of you - but it could only happen if you told God you wanted it to happen. You'd suffer in hell for eternity, but either way you'd still be on a different side of the gulf. I bet most people will say 'no' because, they will say, they love God more than their child (and the point of this thread is not to say there's anything wrong with that) and being with the Lord is more important. But, the catch is, if you chose not to go through with it you'd be mentally tormented by the fact your child was in excruciating pain in some 'lake of fire' for ever (God wouldn't wipe away any tears or wipe your memory). Would you still do it? And what's say God gives you a third option, that he just snuffs you out and niether of you would get to Heaven. Would you rather this third option rather than have your own flesh and blood being poked by demons (to use a cartoonish metaphor) and despairing in some spiritual darkness even if you got to go to Heaven?
And what about if we took it further, what about a village of starving African villagers? Would you undergo this punishment so this village of 200 can escape being damned? What about 2,000, 200,000 people? Would anything be worth the sacrifice for you?
Why ask a useless question, for it is impossible for it to happen anyway...But these are the questions that take up the foolish mind...
Fortunately an eternal hell does not exist but if it did, I suppose I would. I would be miserable knowing they were suffering. But even then, if we changed places, wouldn't they then be miserable knowing I was suffering? The African one is a tough one, if I answer I would trade places, then the question arises, why am I not doing more now to help them.
Here's another question...there was a very close knit family of four. They loved each other beyond measure. One day when they were in a park, there was a drive-by shooting and one of the kids was killed. It basically destroyed the family. If you had a choice, would you continue on knowing one of your kids was dead or would you have preferred all 4 of you were killed right then?
No greater love than to lay ones own life down for that of another.
Jer my man, he is talking about the eternal life not the earthly...which is what that verse refers to...
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Uh....yep.....
