Ohio, pulled in two directions (Cleveland, Clinton: schools, live, move to)

[jbcmh81]

Originally Posted by SlideRules99

My response was specific to Trumbull County voters, and what does and doesn’t resonate with them, as it relates to their voting preferences.

Both sides have spent too much energy on national culture wars. The difference is that the Dems have taken the harder hits in counties like Trumbull and Mahoning.

The irony is that Dem culture wars end up expanding rights for more people, while GOP culture wars always seem to take them away.
GOP is just better at selling lies than Dems are at selling truth. Human nature responds to the negative far more strongly than positive.

[SlideRules99]

Originally Posted by jbcmh81

I'm not even sure who ANTIFA are supposed to be. It's extremely decentralized as a movement with pretty much no organization or leadership, so it seems like a nebulous boogeyman to me that the Right just blames for everything they don't like. Did people who might call themselves ANTIFA take part in the protests? Yes, almost certainly. Were they remotely a majority? No. Were they responsible for the protests? No. Was there an some kind of national ANTIFA organization involved? No.

The vast majority of people involved in the 2020 protests were not rioting or causing violence. The minority that was, whether they were actually Leftists or ANTIFA or BLM, or opportunists, or even Right-wing instigators, do not represent what happened or why it happened. The only people who believe otherwise have an agenda of their own.

I’ll repeat it. I am not referring to the protests. I am referring to the full-on riots a good 1-3 months after the BLM protests subsided. These were most certainly violent affairs, and by definition, the people involved were part of the violence and destruction.

I followed these events in real time, as my safety depended on it. That included tracking where the “calls for direct action” were originating.

You are either being naive, or intentionally slippery on your characterization of these events.

I am sure people on this thread want to get back on topic, so I am leaving it there.

[ohioaninsc]

Originally Posted by ram2

The Democrats destroyed the city of Detroit. You cannot argue that.

No, the Auto manufacturers that moved jobs out of Detroit and then out of the country destroyed Detroit, not Democrats. Just like the steel companies that killed all the jobs in the Mahoning Valley destroyed Youngstown-Warren area

[Cida]

Originally Posted by sheena12

I do not think that many people did. The "Both Sides of the Holocaust" bill is terribly disturbing and extreme. I am ashamed that my friends who live out of state have begun to ask how I can tolerate living in a state that will not provide a termination of pregnancy procedure to a ten-year-old child who is a victim of rape.

We just watched "The US and the Holocaust" produced by Ken Burnes. We both think that MORE should be taught in public schools about the Holocaust - not less, and especially more about American complicity.
It was a good documentary. It didn't contain anything I did not already know, but it presented it in a way that made me fear the future of any place that does not recognize that there are NOT two sides to every story, and if we do not learn from history, we are doomed to repeat it.

For me, I knew much of it, but I'd be skeptical of anyone saying it didn't contain anything at all that they didn't know, unless they were professional historians. For instance, I did not know that Hecht took his Madison Square Garden on the road to other cities.

But I agree, I think it was excellent, and particularly smart to choose, of all possible angles, tying it to the U.S.

[Unicorn hunter]

Originally Posted by ohioaninsc

No, the Auto manufacturers that moved jobs out of Detroit and then out of the country destroyed Detroit, not Democrats. Just like the steel companies that killed all the jobs in the Mahoning Valley destroyed Youngstown-Warren area

This was my point in an earlier post. Corporations moved the jobs, so why is one party blamed for it? Bottom line is increasing profits and to hell with the fallout to US workers. Not sure I agree that manufacturing will not return at some point....will the cost of transporting goods around the world someday outweigh the amount that could be saved just having each country do its own manufacturing? Read this somewhere, but can't recall where!

[Cleverfield]

Originally Posted by jbcmh81

Can you explain how Dems "left the working class behind"? And what legislation has the GOP been supporting or passed that target the working class in recent years? How does banning trans from sports and making raped kids have babies benefit the working class, exactly? All these claims about how the Dems don't care about the working class anymore just seem like straight up baseless talking points.

Here's a perfect example. The dems have a viable candidate who supports the working class in Ohio and the DNC is refusing to support him.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/202...some-rcna51435

[bjimmy24]

Originally Posted by Cleverfield

Here's a perfect example. The dems have a viable candidate who supports the working class in Ohio and the DNC is refusing to support him.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/202...some-rcna51435

Dems completely misunderstand the moment they find themselves in. Tim Ryan is a great candidate. He also has 10x the experience of Vance and beats him at his own attempted rhetoric. So of course the DNC is not interested at all. I guess they are happy to lose Ohio for the foreseeable future.

[TheProf]

The Ohio Democratic Party is criminally inept.

[GraniteStater]

Why are they refusing to support Tim Ryan? This is why the middle of the road voter is completely hollowed out by the polarizing of the two party system.

[WRnative]

Originally Posted by GraniteStater

Why are they refusing to support Tim Ryan?

The phrase "burned bridges" likely applies here.


<<Ryan challenged Pelosi for the minority leader job following the 2016 election, and though he garnered only 63 votes from the caucus, the challenge helped prompt Pelosi to institute changes to her party’s leadership.>>


https://www.politico.com/story/2018/...speaker-973722


<<
Democratic Ohio Senate candidate Rep. Tim Ryan reiterated at a televised debate on Monday that he does not believe that President Biden should run for reelection in 2024.

“No, I’ve been very clear. I’d like to see a generational change,” Ryan said at a debate hosted by The Hill’s parent company Nexstar in Cleveland. >>


https://thehill.com/homenews/campaig...t-run-in-2024/