Ohio, pulled in two directions (Dayton, Washington: live in, costs, military)

[EarthBound?]

Originally Posted by Cleverfield

So what you’re saying is “if my guy says the other side is a threat he’s right, but if the other guy says that we’re a threat he’s Hitler”. That doesn’t seem hypocritical at all to you?

No...they are both wrong for saying it. But sippy-cup bunker dwelling pedo Joe Obiden is a bumbling idiot. Bill Clinton was a far better president. Obama was OK in his first term but sucked in his second term. Trump did a good job," although maybe not great". Loved the $1.79 gas but should have stayed off twitter. But pedo Joe has been a total waste from the first he got into politics.
Both side of the political isle need to shut up and get to work for the country and the parties.
And I really don't recall Trump calling the other side, "domestic terrorists". And for a seated president to make that statement of his own countrymen shows that he is willing to do what it takes to divide that country.

[Unicorn hunter]

Originally Posted by EarthBound?

God, Guns and Guts is the term used by Patriots/Military meaning that that's what our Great and Beloved country was built on. Having more than one political party helps to keep a good and healthy balance to make her strong. We don't need a Hitler like president that claims that the other side is a threat. If they make that kind of statement, then they are the Hitler and need to be replaced.

Wait, what? Sounded like you were a Trump supporter at first. Guess I misunderstood.

[EarthBound?]

Originally Posted by Unicorn hunter

Wait, what? Sounded like you were a Trump supporter at first. Guess I misunderstood.

It was either him or Killery Clinton and wasn't going to vote for the Bengazi slayer. Then he had to grow on ya when I was making great money in my investments. Then that started to stumble under the present moron.

[austiNati]

Originally Posted by ram2

The Democrats destroyed the city of Detroit. You cannot argue that.

Racism, deindustrialization, and the war on drugs destroyed Detroit. The societal collapse was nation wide, and any place where the needs of workers aren't met, will/have met the same fate (to different degrees). Also doesn't help that Michigan has one of the least imaginative, least progressive governments in the country. Pretty state though

[bjimmy24]

I mean, industrial cities in the USA had the advantage of being virtually the ONLY places in the world that could mass produce things like cars and steel while the rest of the industrialized world laid in ruins from World Wars I and II for several decades decades. This may have a small bit to do with it. Not into these vague explanations like "racism" or whatever. Don't overthink it, guys.

[EarthBound?]

Originally Posted by Unicorn hunter

Wait, what? Sounded like you were a Trump supporter at first. Guess I misunderstood.

In many ways I am, especially since Twiddle Dee and Twiddle Dumb start screwing up our country.

[ohio_peasant]

Originally Posted by bjimmy24

I mean, industrial cities in the USA had the advantage of being virtually the ONLY places in the world that could mass produce things like cars and steel while the rest of the industrialized world laid in ruins from World Wars I and II for several decades decades. This may have a small bit to do with it. Not into these vague explanations like "racism" or whatever. Don't overthink it, guys.

Indeed. But what separates the industrial cities of the Heartland from the marquee coastal cities, might be termed the approach towards formal education.

The great technological advances of 1850-1920, which powered the industrial revolution, were largely made by self-educated men, who weren't the academic sort. They and their partners built massive businesses, providing decently-paying jobs on the assembly line, to generations of workers who themselves didn't have much education, nor needed it.

The next set of advances was more sophisticated. It was made by people who had academic degrees in engineering or the sciences. The Bostons and the San Franciscos had a deeply rooted academic culture, enabling the next generation of innovation. The Detroits and the Daytons maybe did not; they didn't need it.
Even if they happened to host fine universities, those universities didn't pace the local culture... which remained blue-collar. The local economies continued to rely on assembly-line work.

As the rest of the world grew wealthier and the assembly-line work migrated overseas, the Heartland industrial cities were unable to adapt, whereas the Coastal ones adapted better. The result was a century-long bubble of prosperity in the Heartland - call it 1870-1970.

The collapse of this bubble engenders resentment, frustration despair. And that is going to manifest itself in political orientations, that from a Coastal perspective looks extreme and bizarre.

[Craziaskowboi]

Originally Posted by Cleverfield

Comparing a soft-spoken, somewhat bumbling Biden to the methed out megalomaniac cult leader that was Hitler is actually hilarious.

So megalomaniacal, in fact, that he left the White House on January 19, 2021.

[SlideRules99]

Originally Posted by ohio_peasant

As the rest of the world grew wealthier and the assembly-line work migrated overseas, the Heartland industrial cities were unable to adapt, whereas the Coastal ones adapted better. The result was a century-long bubble of prosperity in the Heartland - call it 1870-1970.

The collapse of this bubble engenders resentment, frustration despair. And that is going to manifest itself in political orientations, that from a Coastal perspective looks extreme and bizarre.

Conversely…

Can you not objectively see any Coastal political orientations or dynamics that, to many in the Industrial Heartland, might look “extreme and bizarre”?

I have many first-hand observations.

Otherwise, much of your thesis was good.

Edit: one example. ANTIFA spent summer 2020 fire-bombing police stations and Federal courthouses in Portland. In Nov 2020, a self-proclaimed ANTIFA member ran for Portland mayor and garnered 41% of the vote.

[Unicorn hunter]

Originally Posted by ohio_peasant

Indeed. But what separates the industrial cities of the Heartland from the marquee coastal cities, might be termed the approach towards formal education.

The great technological advances of 1850-1920, which powered the industrial revolution, were largely made by self-educated men, who weren't the academic sort. They and their partners built massive businesses, providing decently-paying jobs on the assembly line, to generations of workers who themselves didn't have much education, nor needed it.

The next set of advances was more sophisticated. It was made by people who had academic degrees in engineering or the sciences. The Bostons and the San Franciscos had a deeply rooted academic culture, enabling the next generation of innovation. The Detroits and the Daytons maybe did not; they didn't need it.
Even if they happened to host fine universities, those universities didn't pace the local culture... which remained blue-collar. The local economies continued to rely on assembly-line work.

As the rest of the world grew wealthier and the assembly-line work migrated overseas, the Heartland industrial cities were unable to adapt, whereas the Coastal ones adapted better. The result was a century-long bubble of prosperity in the Heartland - call it 1870-1970.

The collapse of this bubble engenders resentment, frustration despair. And that is going to manifest itself in political orientations, that from a Coastal perspective looks extreme and bizarre.

Great post! From what I can tell, this seems to explain a lot of what is just bizarre behavior to me...having only lived on the East and West Coasts before moving to Ohio in retirement. The first time I heard someone praising Trump after I moved here, I took it for sarcasm, and was astonished that they were actually serious. On the West Coast, I can't imagine ever hearing anyone say anything good about him. (I think he's dangerously insane, myself).

I think it's a tragedy that politicians from both parties seem to have just ignored what happened to "Rust Belt" cities. For whatever reason, people here seem to only blame the Democratic Party. Not having lived here during the times in question, I don't know which party would be more to blame for the demise of good paying manufacturing jobs in the region....or if it really wasn't the fault of either party and more the fault of corporations/stock holders. In any case, seems like something should have been done to alleviate the immediate damage and somehow move the region/workers to some other type of economic strategy for survival.

I see so much potential for Ohio and the Cleveland area in particular, but wondering if things will improve or just stall out. Reminds me a lot of Seattle about 30 years or so ago.....before it became the "in" city and everything became so crowded and expensive. Even though I plan to move out of Ohio (politics has become far too corrupt and right wing for me....outweighing the benefits of low cost of living and the natural beauty of the area, sadly), I still hope it becomes successful in the future and maybe the crazy politics will disappear!