Make the Twin Cities even better !!! (Minneapolis, St. Paul: buy, law, legally)

[rcsteiner]

Originally Posted by K-Luv

Get rid of timed traffic lights. Seriously, stupidest thing ever. Anyone who has lived in a state where traffic lights are controlled by sensors-not timers-knows what I am talking about.

Many traffic lights in the Twin Cities are controlled by sensors, but it's also a good thing (IMO) to coordinate sets of lights along specific corridors like they did on Lake Street many years ago. That ensures that someone going the speed limit can be free and clear at low-traffic times of day ... the lights cascade to green.

[audadvnc]

North Broadway is timed to allow free travel in the eastbound lanes on weekday mornings, from Fremont all the way to Highway 94. It really works - let's hear it for coordinated lights!

[Min-Chi-Cbus]

Originally Posted by K-Luv

In order to compromise, both parties need to have a list of items they wish to implement, but are willing to give one or more up in order to achieve at least one intended goal. In fact, that is how laws get passed (in case you ever wondered why a bill would have a few attachments that are completely unrelated).

So, from my perspective, if all I wanted was to have an open liquor store on Sundays, I have nothing else to barter with. Hence, no compromise. Allowing off-sale from gas stations, grocery stores, convience stores like the majority of the country would be nice. Keeping liquor stores open later would be nice, too. But unless I brought those to the table, along with the Sunday hours proposal, I nothing to barter with. And if I have nothing to barter with, I have no incentive to budge.

I do not see why "people like me" need to budge when all "we" want is one thing.

You are contradicting yourself. You are the one who originally proposed to allow liquor stores to remain open later. Yet, you believe that in doing so, along with an extra day of operation on Sunday, would increase crime? Seriously? How is that so? The only thing that would be affected is that a certain aspect of the population would not be reduced to drinking mouthwash on Sundays.

Now you're getting into semantics, and this conversation would be endless if you and I explained why we thought what we both said was the right solution. All I can say is that if it's so "simple", then why hasn't it been done? My guess is that both sides couldn't reach an agreement.

You make a good point: how does closing on Sundays but keeping it open later during the rest of the week reduce crime? Again, this is semantics. The Sunday and crime argument would come from opposition, not me. It's not 100% logical but it's an argument that has worked for decades. One reason why it could be true is that weekends in particular are days when nobody is working, so why give them an extra incentive to get drunk? You may say that if somebody wanted to get drunk they would go to Wisconsin or to a restaurant, and I might say that people like me wouldn't do that under normal circumstances, but may reach for a brewskie if it took 5 minutes of my time. I don't want to dig that deep into this, I just wanted to introduce the counterpoint as to why this isn't a simple solution, and to EVER reach compromise, you'd have to expect to give something up.

[knke0204]

get rid of the lutheran guilt. "Too much of a good thing is bad" type of attitude. Only in Minnesota can you buy booze at liquor stores, but not on Sundays...WTF? and only in Minnesota can you have beer, but it's just 3.2. And only in Minnesota can you go to the bars, but you must leave by 2, heaven forbid you spend anymore of your money. I'm so sick of the contradictory bs in this state. Everyone pushes their values and beliefs on me. Liquor stores closed on Sundays started because other people's values pushed into law. If I want to buy a case of beer on a slow boring Sunday, I should have that right, hell i can do it 6 other days of the week. Either have it one way or not at all.

[audadvnc]

"Too much of anything is bad, but too much whiskey is just enough" - Mark Twain

[uptown_urbanist]

No, Minnesota is far from alone in the its "blue laws" regarding booze on Sundays (and other similar restrictions); I've lived in states with more restrictive laws, as well as those with much looser. I wish alcohol, or at least beer and wine, was allowed to be sold in grocery stores; I don't know what the retail experts say, but I assume that it would be very good for the bottom line of smaller stores. We had a lot of wonderful small markets in our old neighborhoods in California, and I always assumed that the profit on the wines helped keep them viable. It made the neighborhoods much more livable. Plus, it's nice to just be able to pick up a bottle of wine at the same time you're picking up dinner. We had liquor stores, too, and thats' where you went for more serious buying, or if you wanted more options. We had hard liquor sold in our grocery stores, too, and I had no problems with that. The US in general has widely varied and sometimes odd views towards alcohol and its role in society.

[tijlover]

Ever experienced the madness of liquor laws in Philadelphia? I was there last year with my beer-lover Mexican roommate. Go to a liquor store there and they sell everything but beer. Where do we go to buy beer, then? Well, they have these beer despensaries that sell beer only, and the nearest one was 3 miles away!

I have visited my friend in Austin, TX, she lives in a suburb, Cedar Park, which is right over the border into a dry county. There, we need to cross the border to a wet county with bars.

She used to have a cabin in Cisco, 100 miles west of Dallas, in a dry county.
When she's there, she has to drive 40 miles to a wet county.

I was recently in St. George, Utah (Mormon country), arrived at 7pm. Too late! Only two liquor stores in the entire city, and they close at 7pm.

Alternative? Go to a convenience store and buy some 3.2 slop beer!

Quite a shocker to a Las Vegan where we can buy liquor 7/24!

[FamousBlueRaincoat]

Originally Posted by tijlover

Ever experienced the madness of liquor laws in Philadelphia? I was there last year with my beer-lover Mexican roommate. Go to a liquor store there and they sell everything but beer. Where do we go to buy beer, then? Well, they have these beer despensaries that sell beer only, and the nearest one was 3 miles away!

To be fair to PA - and I grew up in PA, went to the U of M for college, and now live in Philly - you only have to go to a beer distributor to buy cases of beer. You do have to go to a state owned liquor store to buy wine or hard stuff. But to get a 6 pack (or even a single bottle of beer, in various sizes) you can go to any number of convenience stores and delis on streetcorners everywhere. Or you can go to any restaurant and get some to go.

The only problem I had with beer in Minnesota was being told that I couldn't get it to go one time from Chipotle. Didn't make any sense to me. Shortly after I turned 21, and wasn't aware of the law. I was walking home, not driving, so why couldn't I walk with beer? Here in PA getting beer to go from a restaurant is one of the most popular ways to do it. But it wasn't really a big deal, it was just really confusing.

The closed on sunday laws don't make a lot of sense. But lots of states of weird alcohol laws, and everybody is convinced their place is the worst, simply because they have to deal with those particular laws. Here in PA people complain a lot too - and I can see how it would be annoying to have to go different places for different stuff if you have a lot of parties or are an alcoholic. But for lone people like me who like the occasional six pack, after I get the hunch for beer, I just have to decide which of the many delis within walking distance I will be going to to get my "beer to go".

[knke0204]

Speaking of Blue Laws... Why can't you purchase/sell a vehicle on Sunday? It makes absolutely no sense. The rest of the world has adapted - Banks, Grocery Stores, Clinics, General Stores, the list goes on... We are in a 24/7 365 society. It makes no sense to me. You can sell cars any single day of the week, but not on Sundays? Why allow cars to be sold at all. That folks, is where the phrase "You can't have your cake and eat it too" is applied.

[knke0204]

Originally Posted by FamousBlueRaincoat

To be fair to PA - and I grew up in PA, went to the U of M for college, and now live in Philly - you only have to go to a beer distributor to buy cases of beer. You do have to go to a state owned liquor store to buy wine or hard stuff. But to get a 6 pack (or even a single bottle of beer, in various sizes) you can go to any number of convenience stores and delis on streetcorners everywhere. Or you can go to any restaurant and get some to go.

The only problem I had with beer in Minnesota was being told that I couldn't get it to go one time from Chipotle. Didn't make any sense to me. Shortly after I turned 21, and wasn't aware of the law. I was walking home, not driving, so why couldn't I walk with beer? Here in PA getting beer to go from a restaurant is one of the most popular ways to do it. But it wasn't really a big deal, it was just really confusing.

The closed on sunday laws don't make a lot of sense. But lots of states of weird alcohol laws, and everybody is convinced their place is the worst, simply because they have to deal with those particular laws. Here in PA people complain a lot too - and I can see how it would be annoying to have to go different places for different stuff if you have a lot of parties or are an alcoholic. But for lone people like me who like the occasional six pack, after I get the hunch for beer, I just have to decide which of the many delis within walking distance I will be going to to get my "beer to go".

Sunday Laws are odd, even if they never really apply to you. I find myself needing to go buy booze on a Sunday maybe a few times a year. Do I need to purchase a car on a Sunday? No, but it's just the principle of it all. I don't get the "too much of one thing" or "too much of a good thing" type of attitude. Why hinder commerce at the expense of an age old law that predates us all?

Bar closing at 2am is weird too. It should be 3 or 4. Many people I know work until 12am and that only allows them 2 hours of socializing. People stay up late anyway, why not have them stay at your establishment and spending their money. That money that will evetually be taxed, and used as income for the goverment? I just don't get why not?