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This sets new heights for both ignorance and arrogance and a new low for humility. You'll never know what you've been missing.
No, because appreciating and revering sunsets and art and nature and starry skies does not require intransigent complacency in other important areas of life. Areas which require rational goals and directed action.
It would appear we have reached an impasse and can agree to disagree. It seems all relevant opinions have been expressed.
Just want to add that the "love" requirement doesn't have to be romantic though. That's somewhat limiting. I would say as long as you can express your love and have a place for that expression to manifest.....whether that be your community, homeless animals, orgs like big brother/big sister, etc.
I did have a good chuckle from your "basically plants" comment. I meet plenty of people who are basically ladies-who-lunch (regardless of gender) and the conversation is just a notch above plant life, which I take to be suggestive of the level of productive activity happening in their brain.
THe other problem, Marc, is that many people don't really even understand what you mean when you say the word *productive*. (I've already read a numer of responses where I can see that problem.) There is no point in having the discussion of a concept if the very concept is not understood in the first place. This, of course, is not your fault. But speaks more to who is at the table when you wish to have that discussion (in a meaningful way, at least).
Agreed on love. I think romantic love is the highest and best expression, but friends and acquaintances can act as surrogates. Not as good, but better than nothing. Also agree on productivity. I use that term in its widest sense. While a productive career that you absolutely love is an included ideal, it can also mean cleaning out the garage and getting it organized for projects. Or mowing the lawn.
The rebellion here could be coming from people dissatisfied with their own lack of “production”. I could also see resentment and even envy coming from people who can no longer produce due to disabilities, infirmities and/or age. That’s fine, because if I was 83 and couch-bound or porch-bound I would pine for the days of production also. In fact, I am going to be very bad at being really old if I am “lucky” enough to get there.
Best days I would say were most of the 90's and early 2000's. Felt mostly great. Had most inner peace and mostly sense of wellness. Hopefully will find this again and it would be most welcomed.
I do believe to an extent (more than before) that those who follow (or buy into) life's template are generally happier.
Like, you know...
Go to college, get a job, get married, have kids, advance at that job make money, retire.
And I think it's because most people follow that path, so it makes it easier to socialize and relate to those who are in the same situation. Life is set up that way for people. Like for example, it's hard to change careers in your 40s because so few people do it.
I have a friend who is his early 40s who is just kind of stuck in his 20s. And he was an immature 20s at that. He liked to go to bars, and play pool, and watch movies and talk about the Sopranos and idiotic jokes, and he doesn't have anybody to do that with anymore. He's isolated and sliding into heavy depression.
I'm not quite as bad as him, but middle age has been far from the happiest time in my life. Having kids just never struck me as something I wanted to do. But I may regret it.
I do believe to an extent (more than before) that those who follow (or buy into) life's template are generally happier.
Like, you know...
Go to college, get a job, get married, have kids, advance at that job make money, retire.
And I think it's because most people follow that path, so it makes it easier to socialize and relate to those who are in the same situation. Life is set up that way for people. Like for example, it's hard to change careers in your 40s because so few people do it.
I have a friend who is his early 40s who is just kind of stuck in his 20s. And he was an immature 20s at that. He liked to go to bars, and play pool, and watch movies and talk about the Sopranos and idiotic jokes, and he doesn't have anybody to do that with anymore. He's isolated and sliding into heavy depression.
I'm not quite as bad as him, but middle age has been far from the happiest time in my life. Having kids just never struck me as something I wanted to do. But I may regret it.
Some express imperious contempt for the predictable path. But it does keep you socially connected. I’ve met people like your friend and their refusal to mature into adults leaves them in a true pathos. They often keep trying to date people decades younger than they are even though they can’t really keep up. Plus nothing to talk about because 20 somethings are generally vacuous. Meanwhile, their contemporaries don’t want much to do with them because they are boring, responding to the same nonsense they did as teens basically. No depth. No wisdom. No ability to hold a serious conversation. Yet they fancy themselves as the rebellious cognoscenti, not succumbing to their mortality and following a “different” path, which in reality is “no path”. It’s quite pathetic and sad. We do have different stages in our very short lifespans, and it’s nice to travel with those at a similar stage to our own.
Location: Formerly Pleasanton Ca, now in Marietta Ga
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Paolella
Happiness actually has to be achieved. It is not possible to just “be happy”. It has to be earned through goals and actions. It’s not an idle state of being, it is the positive emotional aftermath of rational action. I think it is possible to misunderstand one’s own inner state and assert they are happy when they would more accurately be described as non-distressed.
So if one has achieved happiness finally, do you think they need to now have another goal?
If someone has a goal to complete a marathon and then manage to do so by crossing the finish line, do they still need to keep running?
I've had two really, really good times in my life. The first was when I moved to Germany and lived there for three years. Yes, I was married to my ex husband but he was gone all the time - LOL. My kids were small but early school age. It was great. This was in the early 90s. I loaded up those kids and we traveled around Europe together and had a blast. I lived in a German apartment and got to experience living in a foreign country (again - first time was in Japan) and I loved it.
The second time was my entire marriage to my darling husband (not the ex). We were together for fifteen years and he was just so funny, so smart, so handsome and trustworthy and we just got along great. We had a lot of outside stressors but we also had some good accomplishments together. He passed away unexpectedly last year but honestly, though he was too young (62), he had a terrific death (sudden, massive heart attack that he never saw coming) - after a good life. And it was topped by our marriage - we were best friends, and lots of people never get to experience such a fabulous relationship so I am very grateful for it.
So if one has achieved happiness finally, do you think they need to now have another goal?
If someone has a goal to complete a marathon and then manage to do so by crossing the finish line, do they still need to keep running?
Yes. As long as you are alive and are a functioning rational animal, you need goals. They can change once achievements are met or failed at, but there has to be something on the agenda to push forward to. These shrink with age, but never disappear until we cease to exist. Same with love and companionship. We need it until death. That’s why being old and alone is so distasteful. Shrunken vistas and no one to share with. Sounds kind of like... death.
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