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people have been connected to God for all time.
humans have a soul.
our soul connects us to God.
always has. always will.
don't need this or that personality to "connect" us.
we each have a direct line.
always have. always will.
long before this or that person walked the planet.
regarding a specific personality, is it helpful? to some perhaps
necessary for all? most definitely not
to say "only this person" connects humanity to God is the same problem as saying "only this religion" connects humanity to God.
God is available to all, always has been, always will be.
You are reacting to a situation that does not exist. We are ALL God's children reproducing Him, but the only one in the spiritual fossil record who achieved PERFECT resonance (IDENTITY) with God's consciousness is Jesus. Others have come close and many still do but perfect resonance is necessary to permanently merge all human consciousness with God. That is what prevents any human consciousness from separation from God. YMMV
I made an attempt at "establishing a common frame of reference," but apparently making reference to that effort any more is a problem for some people. Actually just a few old and stubborn intolerant regulars with what I can only guess is a bad case of hemorrhoids, but no matter. You are right...
No doubt if you start with the belief that God is the basis for everything, though that is certainly one frame of reference, it is not a common one. Hard to understand this non-believe in the supernatural but absolute belief in God, but you are right. Without establishing a reasonable common frame of reference for all concerned, we're better served to simply stay in our respective corners and believe whatever we wish.
I understand and I respect and used your persona non-grata "Truths" to overcome my materialism conditioning after my encounter in deep meditation to try to find a plausible explanation for it. That is why I said most people with the materialist view of Reality simply cannot relate to my views. It is why they think God must be "supernatural" when God IS the ONLY natural there is.
You are reacting to a situation that does not exist. We are ALL God's children reproducing Him, but the only one in the spiritual fossil record who achieved PERFECT resonance (IDENTITY) with God's consciousness is Jesus. Others have come close and many still do but perfect resonance is necessary to permanently merge all human consciousness with God. That is what prevents any human consciousness from separation from God. YMMV
That you try to elevate one human as the only human "in resonance with God" is exactly the same as elevating one religion as the only religion.
That is exactly what you are saying as a way of claiming superiority.
(a) Can you see the problem with claiming "this way is the only way" or "this person is the only person"
And (b) your ignorance of other traditions and paths is evident, this precludes you from making any such claim.
That you try to elevate one human as the only human "in resonance with God" is exactly the same as elevating one religion as the only religion.
That is exactly what you are saying as a way of claiming superiority.
(a) Can you see the problem with claiming "this way is the only way" or "this person is the only person"
And (b) your ignorance of other traditions and paths is evident, this precludes you from making any such claim.
I am not ignorant of other traditions and paths, in fact, I probably examined more than you have during my sojourn through the spiritual fossil record. But the only one that perfectly matched the consciousness I encountered were the descriptions in the Jesus narrative about the Holy Spirit of agape that was unambiguously demonstrated by His endurance of such brutal savagery while maintaining love even for His torturers and murderers. That is way beyond mere indifference to the pain of this world.
I try to elevate nothing. I simply recognize the perfection of agape love attributed to Jesus. The story encapsulates the epitome of the love of God and each other, whatever its other merits or demerits might be due to human perversion, fallibility, and agenda-pushing.
Your belief in a "soul" is based on the inability of the Greeks to comprehend consciousness.
The Greeks did not know that living organisms are one or more cells, nor did they know that in humans highly specialized brain cells interacting biochemically produced consciousness.
In order to explain consciousness in a way that they could understand and that fit in with their philosophical views, the developed the concept of a "soul."
Your belief in a soul is based on an ancient people's misunderstanding of everything.
Your inability to grasp that is disturbing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tzaphkiel
our soul connects us to God.
If true, that would be demonstrable, but it isn't true, because there are no souls and no gods.
The strange thing about your false allegation that we are connected to god is that god never bothered to tell people anything.
Your god never told anyone that slavery was wrong; that treating women as 2nd Class Citizens with limited rights is wrong; that dictatorship is wrong; and that a whole host of other things are just plain wrong.
What then is the value of being "connected to god?"
Was Hitler connected to god? How about King Leopold of Belgium and his slaughter of 10 Million Africans in the Congo Region?
I am not ignorant of other traditions and paths, in fact, I probably examined more than you have during my sojourn through the spiritual fossil record. But the only one that perfectly matched the consciousness I encountered were the descriptions in the Jesus narrative about the Holy Spirit of agape that was unambiguously demonstrated by His endurance of such brutal savagery while maintaining love even for His torturers and murderers. That is way beyond mere indifference to the pain of this world.
I try to elevate nothing. I simply recognize the perfection of agape love attributed to Jesus. The story encapsulates the epitome of the love of God and each other, whatever its other merits or demerits might be due to human perversion, fallibility, and agenda-pushing.
so recognize the qualities of compassion, love, benevolence which are the fabric of God and the truth of our soul. those are the essence of the divinity at the core of every human.
and drop the superiority claims. which are to use your words "dross perversion hubris fallibility and agenda pushing"
Another one liner without substance.
There is a collection of these superficial one liners that gets repeated over and over like tired lines from a worn script.
In lieu of an original thought with actual depth and substance.
The problem with preaching to an audience which you state is your goal is that it precludes actual intelligent conversation. It is just reading lines from a tract.
People tune it out.
People see it for what it is.
Evangelism. Of the frothing street corner variety.
Which people give a wide berth and cross to the other side of the street to avoid.
No thanks.
Tzaph. I don't think I can recall a better example of someone stuffing their fingers in their ears. The question of 'Which god?' is a valid and in fact pivotal one. To dismiss it as a one -liner without substance is a display of closed -minded denial. Which is not disguised by presenting it in gasping three -beat imitation scriptural form. With "No Thanks" instead of "Amen".
Mind, I gather that you are not concerned yourself with a religion -specific god, so this isn't a question that applies to you. The only question that applies is about the matter of knowledge that is claimed to have been popped divinely into your head. "Inspiration".
Tzaph. I don't think I can recall a better example of someone stuffing their fingers in their ears. The question of 'Which god?' is a valid and in fact pivotal one. To dismiss it as a one -liner without substance is a display of closed -minded denial. Which is not disguised by presenting it in gasping three -beat imitation scriptural form. With "No Thanks" instead of "Amen".
Mind, I gather that you are not concerned yourself with a religion -specific god, so this isn't a question that applies to you. The only question that applies is about the matter of knowledge that is claimed to have been popped divinely into your head. "Inspiration".
again, this has nothing to do with what I said or what is being discussed.
more random lines from a tract.
when you see someone standing on a street corner rambling in a steady stream and repeating the same phrases over and over, day in and day out, and you give them a wide berth, is that you "stuffing your fingers in your ears" ? is that you "displaying closed minded denial."
because that's what you're saying.
and doing.
the guy on the street corner talking at people day after day also thinks the phrases he is repeating (over and over and over) are "pivotal" and "valid." It is the behavior of perseverating.
Last edited by Tzaphkiel; 09-27-2019 at 08:49 AM..
Tzaph. I don't think I can recall a better example of someone stuffing their fingers in their ears. The question of 'Which god?' is a valid and in fact pivotal one. To dismiss it as a one -liner without substance is a display of closed -minded denial.
It had me confused. I thought my English was failing me, and that I was missing something. I am sure Tzaph knows there are different god beliefs, and different 'God' beliefs.
again, this has nothing to do with what I said or what is being discussed.
more random lines from a tract.
when you see someone standing on a street corner rambling in a steady stream and repeating the same phrases over and over, day in and day out, and you give them a wide berth, is that you "stuffing your fingers in your ears" ? is that you "displaying closed minded denial."
because that's what you're saying.
and doing.
the guy on the street corner talking at people day after day also thinks the phrases he is repeating (over and over and over) are "pivotal" and "valid." It is the behavior of perseverating.
You are still with eyes closed and fingers in your ears, shouting denial. It doesn't matter. Others will see it even if you don't.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD
I am not ignorant of other traditions and paths, in fact, I probably examined more than you have during my sojourn through the spiritual fossil record. But the only one that perfectly matched the consciousness I encountered were the descriptions in the Jesus narrative about the Holy Spirit of agape that was unambiguously demonstrated by His endurance of such brutal savagery while maintaining love even for His torturers and murderers. That is way beyond mere indifference to the pain of this world.
I try to elevate nothing. I simply recognize the perfection of agape love attributed to Jesus. The story encapsulates the epitome of the love of God and each other, whatever its other merits or demerits might be due to human perversion, fallibility, and agenda-pushing.
I still think that an arena and spiked clubs is the most satisfactory method of settling such theological disputes.
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