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Correct. That comes under the 'Unknown -as yet' category. or at the least the reasonably arguable. Personal preference is, as you say, an empirical fact, but just as art or books are, what they put forward as ideas or viewpoints may reflect personal preferences. And perhaps valid references to empirical truths, given that some still argue a solipsitic universe in which everything seems to be someone's personal opinion, though who that person is is never made clear. It certainly isn't me.I can hardly remember where I put me pipe half the time.
Thank you but while I think that Tzaph. is a worth debator, I am always thinking of a wider audience, who, taking a break from throwing peanuts and stuffing popcorn, might be seeing an argument for the first time.
and they see my response to it as well.
wink. and a grin.
you didn't say whether you'd go out for tea. I caught that. so did your audience.
It may not be unproductive, but I'm not sure it's going to help us come to any broad-based conclusions.
You show me the way to productively arrive at "broad-based conclusions" in this forum, about all such things we tend to discuss in these threads, and I'll eat my keyboard...
Thank you but while I think that Tzaph. is a worth debator, I am always thinking of a wider audience, who, taking a break from throwing peanuts and stuffing popcorn, might be seeing an argument for the first time.
Ah! Thanks for expressing the same sort of notion I have tried to explain many times here, to regulars who complain they've seen the same thing before. As if the world revolves around them or as if they are the only ones who visit these threads...
I find it interesting to see almost 2,000 visits and/or people who have seen the Ten Truths. Far fewer who choose to comment about them for whatever reason(s). No matter. Though I hate to repeat myself, I guess I'm glad I came up with these so as not to have to rewrite the same explanation or comment over and over again, especially with new people. Call me lazy. Seems more often than not, however, comment after comment in this forum directly relates and/or involves at least one of these truths very directly, again and again...
Hi LearnMe. Sounds very interesting to me. Count me in. All the topics suggested so far are interesting to me. A discussion like that will stand a much better chance of success if it takes place on a forum that's outside the "sphere" of religion or spirituality. R&S threads routinely go off-topic and become combative.
-----
This seems like this is an appropriate time to mention some of my other topics of interest, in case there are others here who have overlapping interests.
philosophy, psychology, mythology
supernatural and paranormal
ancient/mystery religions
occult topics and symbolism
conspiracy theories (secret societies, NWO)
Hello Iwas.
Glad you think so too. Still thinking about this and as time runs out for me in this forum again today, maybe tomorrow. Meanwhile I tend to lean on starting this thread in this forum because as explained before, I tend to think about this discussion in terms of how people seem to define themselves largely in terms of their religion, what guides them through life. Also, most people in this country and I assume in this forum are religious, so where better to get the most discussion about how we tend to "define" ourselves as individuals than right here?
"Occult topics and symbolism?"
Admittedly, I don't frequent these other forums. Most I've never visited before and perhaps this too is why I'm not so inclined to go elsewhere with expanded or different approaches to discussing how religion and spirituality tends to define who we are (or not).
Until tomorrow, thanks for the additional input and cheers!
Glad you think so too. Still thinking about this and as time runs out for me in this forum again today, maybe tomorrow. Meanwhile I tend to lean on starting this thread in this forum because as explained before, I tend to think about this discussion in terms of how people seem to define themselves largely in terms of their religion, what guides them through life. Also, most people in this country and I assume in this forum are religious, so where better to get the most discussion about how we tend to "define" ourselves as individuals than right here?
"Occult topics and symbolism?"
Admittedly, I don't frequent these other forums. Most I've never visited before and perhaps this too is why I'm not so inclined to go elsewhere with expanded or different approaches to discussing how religion and spirituality tends to define who we are (or not).
Until tomorrow, thanks for the additional input and cheers!
Thanks for your response, LearnMe. I agree that this forum is most appropriate to the topic you proposed. I was thinking in terms of other possibilities. It would be very interesting for several of the “regulars” from this forum to go forum-hopping, visiting a few forums on different topics and getting a ‘feel for the room.’ Humans are creatures of habit, sticking with the familiar, when stepping outside the familiar can be an empowering and mentally invigorating experience, opening one’s reality to new possibilities! Fun! Who’s with me? Suggestion for other forum topics to ‘sample’?
It seems to me that they can be. At least sometimes. Or at least given degrees of credibility. Someone who claims to have napoleon's chamber pot can be asked to produce it and experts can at least tell whether the claim is credible. Someone who claims that he Was Napoleon in a former life may be asked for evidence like who commanded the artillery at Borodino.
In the past some members here suggested imagining these kind of arguments as set in court, so I'm thinking how would a litigator approach it? First, you set out what the claim is supposed to be evidencing. In your example, I would imagine that the only thing that can be tested/evidenced is the person's knowledge of Napoleon as a subject and the strength of their conviction, which could be empirically measured.
If, for instance, a person's belief that they used to be Napoleon was meant to evidence reincarnation then I'm not sure how this could be tested directly, at least not until reincarnation is established as a scientific fact and mechanisms for testing soul's DNA developed (can't believe I just wrote that). Until then, however, this subjective belief would be inadmissible in court as evidence.
I hope this makes sense. It's been a long week. I'm knackered and my brain is fried so in my head I feel like this is making perfect sense but I'm not convinced I'm communicating it in a legible way.
Ah! Thanks for expressing the same sort of notion I have tried to explain many times here, to regulars who complain they've seen the same thing before. As if the world revolves around them or as if they are the only ones who visit these threads...
I find it interesting to see almost 2,000 visits and/or people who have seen the Ten Truths. Far fewer who choose to comment about them for whatever reason(s). No matter. Though I hate to repeat myself, I guess I'm glad I came up with these so as not to have to rewrite the same explanation or comment over and over again, especially with new people. Call me lazy. Seems more often than not, however, comment after comment in this forum directly relates and/or involves at least one of these truths very directly, again and again...
There is nothing unexceptional about your 'ten truths'. Nobody comments after looking as there isn't much to object to. We (or I at least) just don't see a reason to codify the reasoning process into bullet points like a set of commandments, never mind crediting it to one person as though they invented reasoning.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LearnMe
You show me the way to productively arrive at "broad-based conclusions" in this forum, about all such things we tend to discuss in these threads, and I'll eat my keyboard...
Well, for one, the old argument from Morality that was such a mainstay in the old days of the Forum is pretty much dead and gone and well on the way to being an argument against religion.
I suggest you start at 'Enter' and chew your way to 'caps lock'. Try some 1000 island dressing on the punctuation -keys.
There is nothing unexceptional about your 'ten truths'. Nobody comments after looking as there isn't much to object to. We (or I at least) just don't see a reason to codify the reasoning process into bullet points like a set of commandments, never mind crediting it to one person as though they invented reasoning.
Well, for one, the old argument from Morality that was such a mainstay in the old days of the Forum is pretty much dead and gone and well on the way to being an argument against religion.
I suggest you start at 'Enter' and chew your way to 'caps lock'. Try some 1000 island dressing on the punctuation -keys.
Interesting given what I can assure you was and still remains a great deal of angst and push-back about these Ten Truths for all manner of reasons. Though I don't view what I put together in the way of these truths as particularly "exceptional," I have also been nicely complimented about them. Also for all sorts of reasons.
What I find at least a little unique is the effort to lay out an approach or path of rational, from beginning to end, that might help land just about anyone on the same page or at least to consider a way to conclude in a manner that might be most agreeable to all concerned.
You may not find much to object to, because I know we are closer to being of like mind in these respects, but believe me you are more the exception rather than the rule given much in the way of objection I have received about even the basic premise. If you are paying attention you might note that more often than not I post one or more of these truths or reference that thread when someone comments notions or opinion to the contrary. That's quite often actually.
In any case, I was more just wanting to agree with your explanation that you comment not necessarily with only one person in mind but others. Though in one particular case you spend a lot of time doing so even though no one else really seems to be taking up the other end of that argument other than the one person you are responding to.
All good either way far as I'm concerned. "To each his own" as some may say. Glad you are part of the mix in any case. This I can also say...
In the past some members here suggested imagining these kind of arguments as set in court, so I'm thinking how would a litigator approach it? First, you set out what the claim is supposed to be evidencing. In your example, I would imagine that the only thing that can be tested/evidenced is the person's knowledge of Napoleon as a subject and the strength of their conviction, which could be empirically measured.
If, for instance, a person's belief that they used to be Napoleon was meant to evidence reincarnation then I'm not sure how this could be tested directly, at least not until reincarnation is established as a scientific fact and mechanisms for testing soul's DNA developed (can't believe I just wrote that). Until then, however, this subjective belief would be inadmissible in court as evidence.
I hope this makes sense. It's been a long week. I'm knackered and my brain is fried so in my head I feel like this is making perfect sense but I'm not convinced I'm communicating it in a legible way.
Makes sense to me as I know I have been one of the people who has used the "court of law" approach many times before. Here too, I think we arrive in the same place with respect to what is "admissible" or not, and again as I attempt to litigate by way of my Ten Truths!
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