Italy: No Longer Offering Respirators to Those Over 60 (deaths, cost, felonies)
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I question that the automotive industry can be called in to make ventilators. Cars and ventilators are very different. The supply chains and technical expertise are completely different. It makes more sense that existing manufacturers increase throughput and potentially other companies could assist that make equipment at least simular in some ways. Perhaps dialysis machines, xray machines, automated blood testing machines and so on. At least these types of companies have some experience with medical instrumentation. There are also companies that specialize in electronics assembly for other companies. This is not to say that automotive companies don't have some resources that could help like floor space, purchasing expertise, production management, even capitol. But this whole impression that ventilators can start rolling of a line instead of GMC Denalies is a little bizarre.
In 20 plus years I've never seen healthcare rationed. They make decisions based on potential outcome, legal directives and family. If someone has 5 bullet holes in them and their prognosis is extremely poor they will still treat until they can not get the heart beating again, or directives state no extraordinary measures. If the hospital is unable to handle more patients they'll find a hospital that can take them and send them there, many times they'll life flight them.
Depending on the numbers that might not be possible. Any system can be overwhelmed when new cases are coming fast enough. I have no idea why people have so much trouble understanding kindergarten math.
It's a factory, not a text message. You don't get retooled in 0.33 seconds.
You couldn't be more wrong.
Italy and Spain are not 1st World Countries. They claim to be, but if you've ever spent any time there, and I have, you'd know they have one foot in the 2nd World and one foot in the 3rd World with a veneer of 1st World.
Both countries have a North-South Dichotomy. Northern Italy is wealthy, while southern Italy is dirt-poor. You laugh at Mississippi and Alabama, well obviously you haven't been to southern Italy.
Same for Spain.
Spain has a British-style NHS, while Italy just has universal coverage.
However, both are unitary States and that's problematic.
Unitary States typically spend all the tax dollars on the capital city, because it's the showplace usually.
Romania is a unitary State. Go to Buchareti, it's nice. Go to Iasi, Arad or Satu Mare, and it's like you're on a another planet.
In Italy, the money for the healthcare budget is all spent in Rome. Rome has the most modern hospitals with the most modern equipment and it's staffed at 100%.
Where are your news reports coming from? Not Rome. They're coming from the places where the government doesn't spend any healthcare dollars. What little isn't spent in Rome goes to the North and they throw the South a bone. Those hospitals are decrepit with 1970s equipment and lucky to be staffed at 80%.
Same with Spain. All the money is spent in Madrid. Yeah, Barcelona, but that's only because Barcelona had the Olympics, and, you know, gotta make it look nice for the tourists.
The # 60 is scary. I wouldn't be as surprised if it was over 70. But 60 years old isn't THAT old if you consider so many people still live easily for another 10-15 years.
No disrespect here but does it make more sense to cremate given what is going on? I can't see their being funerals/memorials at this time so having a body present makes no sense.
I'm not sure how Italy views cremation but it's becoming more common in the US.
It's just numbers. You have X respirators and Y cases. When Y>X, some people aren't going to get respirators. One logical way of looking at that is who is the most likely to survive if given a respirator. It's younger people. Initially that cutoff was either 80 or Charlson comorbidity index of less than 5. If you were over 80, they just didn't give you a respirator as there weren't enough of them and it was easier to just not give you one than take it away to give to a younger person when they showed up. As the number of cases has gone up, now that's 60. Maybe they should have set it at 70 originally.
COVID-19 doesn't seem to live that long outside a host. Stick the body in a freezer for a few day and it's probably no longer contagious. At any rate, don't lick the popsicle at the funeral just to be safe. Weird custom. My dad's boss is Italian so I went to a couple of those funerals. They have a necrophilia complex in Italian culture.
Depending on the numbers that might not be possible. Any system can be overwhelmed when new cases are coming fast enough. I have no idea why people have so much trouble understanding kindergarten math.
No kidding. yes, I have no idea why people have so much trouble understanding kindergarten reading and perception. Go back and read, you'll see that I said in 20+ I've never seen it happen, I said "nothing" about that it can't happen.
When Bill was president and Hillary was pushing Hillarycare, she said that nurses were undereducated, over paid and needed to do more but when her dad became ill shortly after, he had an entire fully staffed floor in the hospital. I'll never forget it, I was working NICU when that came out and the nurses were fuming. They posted the article on the bulletin board.
So middle-aged mom, it goes both ways.
Did she really?
Your source is something you recall or read about in 1993?
This online rumor regained traction in 2016 and to the best of my knowledge was never expressed by Hillary. It’s right up there with pizza gate and all the other goofy noise.
No doubt, Secret Service made sure the father in law of POTUS was in a physically secured location for obvious reasons.
That first son/ daughter would likely get a ventilator over Joe Blow, same age and health, has nothing to do with partisan- all to do with who happens to be sitting the oval right now.
The media gives second hand reports all the time if it fits their agenda.
That's part of the problem. I've heard people complain that the amount of investigating done by journalist has been slashed over the years. Not sure if the internet and social media outlets are good for some of this, they are but they aren't at the same time. Information now is reported and half the time it's not accurate, but it is what it is. We can't put the instant communication genie back in the bottle.
In 20 plus years I've never seen healthcare rationed. They make decisions based on potential outcome, legal directives and family. If someone has 5 bullet holes in them and their prognosis is extremely poor they will still treat until they can not get the heart beating again, or directives state no extraordinary measures. If the hospital is unable to handle more patients they'll find a hospital that can take them and send them there, many times they'll life flight them.
Maybe not in such a blatant and obvious way but healthcare rationing is built into the system. It takes place with insurance and the ability to pay. Triage is the first step in mass casulty. Those with the best chance of survival combined with being the most critical get treated first. Severely ill people are often only given comfort care at the end of life. All of this can be considered rationing.
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