Coronavirus in Massachusetts (vs, shop, safe)

[Amontillado]

One preconceived notion that I have about myself, and I bet it's true about everyone here too, is that I'm not a medical expert. I trust my health to people who know that stuff, because I'm sure that if I tried to figure it out, I'd end up sick or dead.

In fact, there are quite a few people out there now, claiming to understand how to deal with a disease that nobody has much experience with. So far it seems to be mostly those people who are getting sick and dying, while the ones who follow medical advice are doing much better. I'm a compassionate person, and I wish they'd take better care of themselves, but I can't force them.

Here's a medical experiment involving identical twins! (Actually it wasn't. But it's interesting anyway.)
https://news.yahoo.com/identical-twi...120027957.html

[msRB311]

we dont even give the smallpox vaccine anymore.

My great aunt had smallpox and it affected her greatly. She was from a wealthier family in dorchester and one of her legs/feet was much smaller than the other. I remember being mesmerized that at like 7 or 8 her shoe left shoe fit me. She still went on to be principal of a high school. Id say the effects of polio on 'normal' kids back then seemed much worst than the effects of covid on normal kids today. I know we dont know what those affects are but it's safe to say people arent going to be walking with a lifelong limp due to differnt limb/foot lengths. Yes some immunocompromised kids have died but sick kids die every year from pneumonia and the flu also.

[GeoffD]

Originally Posted by msRB311

Im not going to argue that there aren't certain industries that have most certainly benefitted from this pandemic. Amazon, shopify, Facebook, Zoom, anything tech related has most certainly benefitted and exploded.

I know lots of tech businesses that struggled because the supply chain is so messed up. Notice that you can’t buy cars now because of the “chip shortage”. That’s not impacting just the automobile industry. Basic things like DRAM chips that now have a many month lead time. I know companies that only shipped 30% of their cable set-top box and cable modem orders this year. A few of the giants like Apple are getting parts because they have so much leverage with their suppliers. Smaller companies are having a tough time getting parts. The profit margins aren’t high enough on most of this to pay scalper prices to scrounge parts. The net profit margin on a cable modem or set top box sold to a giant like Comcast is only a couple of bucks.

[jayrandom]

Originally Posted by justyouraveragetenant

Israel is 80 percent vaccinated and almost of the people hospitalized have been vaccinated. Even though they have a high vaccination rate they have had serious out breaks.

https://rightsfreedoms.wordpress.com...t-you-to-know/


This is from the website...... The mainstream media will NEVER ask the CDC for their analysis of the death data, because it would instantly reveal that the CDC, NIH, and FDA have been lying to the American people since the start of the vaccination program. They’ve known all along that the vast majority of the reported deaths have no plausible explanation other than the vaccine.

I'm not a stickler for enormous impact factor, but you'll have to do better than 'wordpress'.

And the explanation is almost always the dangerous virus that has killed millions across the world. The vaccine reduces the number of cases, the severity of their impact, and the likelihood of death.

[Shrewsburried]

Originally Posted by bostongymjunkie

First, see my edits above. Second, this is bull. If anything the imperfect vaccines may be compounding the problem and creating variants.

If you're suggesting vaccines alter behavior and that altered behavior is leading to increased breakthrough infections which might not otherwise happen, then perhaps you have a point.

Otherwise, there is zero data supporting the idea that antigenic drift is somehow exacerbated by 'imperfect vaccines', including the plausible ADE scenario which has been found to not be an issue with the currently available Covid vaccines or existing variants. Here.

[bostongymjunkie]

Originally Posted by Shrewsburried

If you're suggesting vaccines alter behavior and that altered behavior is leading to increased breakthrough infections which might not otherwise happen, then perhaps you have a point.

Otherwise, there is zero data supporting the idea that antigenic drift is somehow exacerbated by 'imperfect vaccines', including the plausible ADE scenario which has been found to not be an issue with the currently available Covid vaccines or existing variants. Here.

The behavior is a problem, just like mask study which showed less compliance with safety measures when people used masks as a panacea. Your article indicates they have found no evidence of a problem as of March 2021. I wouldn't call that a slam dunk conclusion. I would also add that this was before they learned that the viral load in vaccinated people carrying the virus is as as high as the non-vaccinated: https://hotair.com/allahpundit/2021/...inated-n405034.

Given this emergence of information I would take a more reserved approach to forming conclusions. Actually, I would always take a more reserved approach since science is a method of ongoing inquiry and, in the grand scheme of things, there's much we don't know.

I think this article from February 2021 does a better job of presenting the information with the caution that it deserves.

https://www.npr.org/2021/02/09/96570...vid-19-mutants

This study from 2015 also is also worth reading given the transmissibility of this virus coupled with the high viral load found in the vaccinated. This is also where behavior becomes an issue. Again, the rush to declare the vaccines a quick end to this problem, like the masks, may be compounding things. https://pennstate.pure.elsevier.com/...-highly-viru-2


I don't have the answers and it's likely that at least some of the variants emerged long before the deployment of vaccine, but I do have lots of questions that have yet to be answered. I would also caution those who are in the high risk groups to continue with their precautions and rely less on those who are telling them that x, y, z will simply "end" the problem.

[htfdcolt]

Originally Posted by Shrewsburried

If you're suggesting vaccines alter behavior and that altered behavior is leading to increased breakthrough infections which might not otherwise happen, then perhaps you have a point.

Otherwise, there is zero data supporting the idea that antigenic drift is somehow exacerbated by 'imperfect vaccines', including the plausible ADE scenario which has been found to not be an issue with the currently available Covid vaccines or existing variants. Here.

I'm not, nor are most vaxxed people, worried about breakthrough infections. The odds in Massachusetts, per a column in today's NYT, are 1 in 20,000. To suggest that our current vaccines resulted in the variants that we currently have, flies in the face of immunology & epidemiology. It's a numbers game...you have to minimize the number of opportunities for the virus to replicate. That's what vaccines accomplish. Just consider where the Delta variant originated. Even today, India is only 10% vaxxed.

But, as someone pointed out above, there are any number of self-styled experts here who confidently claim to know more than those who have made infectious disease their life's work. On a disease that's 22 months old. 'Nuff said.

[htfdcolt]

Originally Posted by msRB311

we dont even give the smallpox vaccine anymore.

My great aunt had smallpox and it affected her greatly. She was from a wealthier family in dorchester and one of her legs/feet was much smaller than the other. I remember being mesmerized that at like 7 or 8 her shoe left shoe fit me. She still went on to be principal of a high school. Id say the effects of polio on 'normal' kids back then seemed much worst than the effects of covid on normal kids today. I know we dont know what those affects are but it's safe to say people arent going to be walking with a lifelong limp due to differnt limb/foot lengths. Yes some immunocompromised kids have died but sick kids die every year from pneumonia and the flu also.

But didn't Covid just give us a lesson on how Americans will react next time? What if the next pandemic *is* debilitating like polio or smallpox? 40% are gonna deny the disease exists right off the bat, costing us valuable time for containment and public health measures. The consequences could be disastrous, not to say Covid wasn't.

[timberline742]

Originally Posted by bostongymjunkie

I would also add that this was before they learned that the viral load in vaccinated people carrying the virus is as as high as the non-vaccinated: https://hotair.com/allahpundit/2021/...inated-n405034.
.

People use this a lot against vaccines, but it doesn't support that conclusion. While with Delta the viral load was a high with vaccinated vs unvaccinated, that viral load dropped quickly and precipitously among the vaccinated compared to the unvaccinated. This shows the vaccine being hugely beneficial for the person with covid but also for others as overall the vaccinated would be much much less likely to pass it along.

[msRB311]

I heard in Hyde park that there was some type of incident involving masks that led to a homophobic slur exchange.