Coronavirus in Massachusetts (Lawrence, Provincetown: high school, bus, safety)

[BostonMike7]

Looks like 44% of the breakthrough infections are in immunocompromised persons, which led to this 3rd shot being authorized to help them build immunity. Only 3% of the population is deemed immunocompromised but they make up almost half of the breakthrough infections. Looks like the vaccine in 2 doses is 40-70% effective in that group while still 90-94% effective in healthier persons

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cnb...ed-people.html

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.vox...unocompromised

So outside of that group of persons, your likelyhood of hospitalization after vaccination is extremely low. Sometimes like 0.001% out of all vaccinated people.

[GeoffD]

Originally Posted by OutdoorLover

The news re Covid-19 can be confusing. There are real questions as to the efficacy of vaccines to prevent Delta-variant infection and transmission - which is why masks and social distancing are still being encouraged, even for vaccinated individuals, in riskier settings.

However, it is actually clear that double vaccination with the mRNA vaccines provides excellent protection against trips to the hospital, the ICU, and the morgue, due to infection with either the Alpha or the Delta variants.

On the infection and spread of Delta, see "How do vaccinated people spread Delta? What the science says":
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-02187-1

Personally, I've lost faith in the CDC and Federal government messaging. I tend to believe the Israeli Pfizer efficacy data. I think Federal government messaging is similar to their early mask messaging to stop a rush on N95 masks. They don't want the whole country to rush out and demand a Moderna booster this week to deal with the Pfizer efficacy problem against Delta.


I want my 89-year-old mother in memory care to get a booster ASAP. My fiancee is a director at a hospital holding company and is well beyond 6 months. I think all patient-facing health care workers who were jabbed back in December/January should be getting a booster as high priority. I think Israel has it right. They're now scheduling anyone 50+.

[LeavingMA]

Originally Posted by BostonMike7

Looks like 44% of the breakthrough infections are in immunocompromised persons, which led to this 3rd shot being authorized to help them build immunity. Only 3% of the population is deemed immunocompromised but they make up almost half of the breakthrough infections. Looks like the vaccine in 2 doses is 40-70% effective in that group while still 90-94% effective in healthier persons

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cnb...ed-people.html

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.vox...unocompromised

So outside of that group of persons, your likelyhood of hospitalization after vaccination is extremely low. Sometimes like 0.001% out of all vaccinated people.

Makes me wonder how many people just scared will take a 3rd shot no matter what. The booster is coming this fall anyway.

[LeavingMA]

Originally Posted by GeoffD

Personally, I've lost faith in the CDC and Federal government messaging. I tend to believe the Israeli Pfizer efficacy data. I think Federal government messaging is similar to their early mask messaging to stop a rush on N95 masks. They don't want the whole country to rush out and demand a Moderna booster this week to deal with the Pfizer efficacy problem against Delta.


I want my 89-year-old mother in memory care to get a booster ASAP. My fiancee is a director at a hospital holding company and is well beyond 6 months. I think all patient-facing health care workers who were jabbed back in December/January should be getting a booster as high priority. I think Israel has it right. They're now scheduling anyone 50+.

The mask messaging about the N95 and rushing out was complete false, shown by the Fauci emails. Also by the fact they used a study (not really a study but a situation that occurred) after Fauci made his big masks don't work on 60 minutes. He then referenced something that happened after and said that was his excuse for not masking people. I guess he just needed time to buy stock in masks.

The CDC has been a joke for awhile, but I noticed it after the first month of this. I stopped listening to them other than to joke about them. They are run by the Gates Foundation and Big Pharma. They don't produce anything to science and the only thing they have been consistent on, is being inconsistent. The new director is only there because she takes orders from somebody, she can't think for herself. She can put it on her resume and she will move on later to some big pharma job to make millions.

[OutdoorLover]

Originally Posted by LeavingMA

Makes me wonder how many people just scared will take a 3rd shot no matter what. The booster is coming this fall anyway.

Yes, that is a concern. Some people have already *been* taking booster shots, even before they were authorized for anyone. Not quite sure how they were doing that, but they were obviously fooling the system. So there are definitely some people that are overanxious for vaccines, just as we have some that are resistant to the idea.

[OutdoorLover]

Originally Posted by GeoffD

Personally, I've lost faith in the CDC and Federal government messaging. I tend to believe the Israeli Pfizer efficacy data. I think Federal government messaging is similar to their early mask messaging to stop a rush on N95 masks. They don't want the whole country to rush out and demand a Moderna booster this week to deal with the Pfizer efficacy problem against Delta.


I want my 89-year-old mother in memory care to get a booster ASAP. My fiancee is a director at a hospital holding company and is well beyond 6 months. I think all patient-facing health care workers who were jabbed back in December/January should be getting a booster as high priority. I think Israel has it right. They're now scheduling anyone 50+.

I can't read minds, but I think yes, there is a concern that clinics and vaccine supply will be taken up by people that are a low priority for boosters. I also think that looking at it from a point of view of minimizing mortality and morbidity overall for the nation, the focus really needs to be on those who have have no immunity or have only partial immunity from one mRNA shot right now - there are over 100 million such people and they are really the main risks, both to themselves and to others.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but FWIW, I am actually fine with the work done by the FDA, NIH, NIAID, and CDC. They have a very difficult and complicated job right now. Maybe they're not perfect, but it's not easy trying to stay on top of an evolving pandemic situation, evolving scientific understanding, persistent and widespread disinformation, and dealing with so many disparate groups of Americans that are being affected by this in so many different ways. I wouldn't want that job.

I do wish the two mRNA vaccine makers were faster to submit their full data packages for full vaccine approval, and that the FDA could speed up their review without sacrificing rigor.

[mdovell]

I was going to go to Canada later this week but apparently they want a different standard in testing. We also can't expect to have a global supply chain if those isn't fixed globally. I was just at a hardware store and done sections were half empty and they're hardly any customers.

If we go another four or so months of work from home it's just going to be normalized. Even if companies say it's OK they'll compete with companies to keep it. Supposedly earlier this year Amazon said it was calling people back and Cisco and Google poached employees.

[OutdoorLover]

Originally Posted by mdovell

I was going to go to Canada later this week but apparently they want a different standard in testing. We also can't expect to have a global supply chain if those isn't fixed globally. I was just at a hardware store and done sections were half empty and they're hardly any customers.

If we go another four or so months of work from home it's just going to be normalized. Even if companies say it's OK they'll compete with companies to keep it. Supposedly earlier this year Amazon said it was calling people back and Cisco and Google poached employees.

My understanding is that fully vaccinated US citizens can cross the border? Canada has info and a required web (ArriveCAN platform) workflow here:
https://www.canada.ca/en/public-heal...arrivecan.html

[mdovell]

Originally Posted by OutdoorLover

My understanding is that fully vaccinated US citizens can cross the border? Canada has info and a required web (ArriveCAN platform) workflow here:
https://www.canada.ca/en/public-heal...arrivecan.html

I'm aware of that but the trouble is that the actual covid tests you can find are not the type they use.

https://travel.gc.ca/travel-covid/tr...ng-into-canada

"All travellers must provide one of the accepted types of tests, not an antigen test, including those who are fully vaccinated."

antigen are faster and more commonly found.

[YevTK]

Originally Posted by OutdoorLover

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but FWIW, I am actually fine with the work done by the FDA, NIH, NIAID, and CDC. They have a very difficult and complicated job right now. Maybe they're not perfect, but it's not easy trying to stay on top of an evolving pandemic situation, evolving scientific understanding, persistent and widespread disinformation, and dealing with so many disparate groups of Americans that are being affected by this in so many different ways. I wouldn't want that job.

You must be joking. These agencies (CDC, NIH etc) have done at absolutely appallingly bad job throughout the pandemic. I attribute this to incompetence and bureaucracy rather than some grand conspiracy. They are far too imcompentent to pull off a conspiracy.

Let's look at some examples where these idiots have failed:

1. No definitive study of surface transmission - people wasted months cleaning surfaces for no reason
2. No definitive study of outdoor transmission - we had to reply on one Chinese study. My son's high school soccer players had to wear masks when playing for no reason
3. No study of infection levels in vaccinated people - they waited for a totally unrepresentative study in Provincetown. This study gave headlines and ammunition to the anti-vaxers. The CDC then made national recommendations from this worthless study. A study that said "data from this report are insufficient to draw conclusions about the effectiveness of COVID-19 vaccines against SARS-CoV-2, including the Delta variant, during this outbreak”.
4. No study of school bus transmission risk
5. No study of transmission in schools
6. No definitive study of masks - the best I can determine is that properly fitted N95 masks are effective, reused bits of cloth aren't.

Again and again these agencies have failed and continue to fail. I am a strong proponent of vaccination but I find myself being undermined by these useless bureaucrats.