Coronavirus in Massachusetts (Boston, Worcester: averages, noisy, routes)

[Toxic Waltz]

Originally Posted by htfdcolt

Here's where I have the problem. Businesses have been shut down worldwide by democratic governments. It's only in the US where this has been politicized and turned into a "rights" issue. Does anyone honestly think that state governments are out to shut down businesses (thereby starving themselves of tax revenue) and put people out of work? The whole premise is ludicrous. It's being done for one reason only--public safety.

Makes sense if you think about it. Americans have typically been more likely to view their rights from a self determination perspective while much of the rest of the world views rights in terms of access to services.

[mdovell]

Originally Posted by justyouraveragetenant

State governors are not legally allowed to shut down buisnesses. I know its happening but constitutionally they are not . this is not coming from me but a judge. States can not interfere with contracts therefore can not shut down buisnesses.

those people need to make a living and by shutting buisnesses down your interfering with their income . when you screw with peoples incomes people could get violent.

its amazing how people are blind to the rights we have lost.

Ya that example of threatening voilence is one small area in the untied states. the main reason is people are being told not to work!! this is ruining the economy and you dont give a crap.

OH why would someone be angry if they are forced to close their buisness and can not pay their mortgage or feed their kids. THATS JUST BANANAS!

Forcing buisnesses to shut down is violence. why? well how is it enforced? ultimatley by the state with a gun.

State governments can shut down businesses. This was not a political act but under the enforcement of the Board of health and the state department of public health. Read Mass Sanitation Code and get back to us. There are things that can happen and probably will continue to happen and be shut down. Same with building code and fire code. If you think you can take a property and put 20 people in a one bedroom apartment that's against code and yes you can shut down. When things cross borders then it becomes more of a state issue as building and health code are by the state and local authorities. (although state code is based on IBC).

Let's say someone is from Europe and they open a bar and serve 19 year olds not knowing the law. Yes that gets shut down. If you have a strip club and they aren't even 18 (assuming no liquor).

State cannot interfere with contracts? Uh government is used to enforce contracts otherwise there would be violence. Let that sit for a minute. Let's say one company is in breech of contract with another. What's the recourse? Litigation. Under what laws? Well enforceable with government. Otherwise who would the third party be? Religion? Tribes?

[massnative71]

Originally Posted by mdovell

State governments can shut down businesses. This was not a political act but under the enforcement of the Board of health and the state department of public health. Read Mass Sanitation Code and get back to us. There are things that can happen and probably will continue to happen and be shut down. Same with building code and fire code. If you think you can take a property and put 20 people in a one bedroom apartment that's against code and yes you can shut down. When things cross borders then it becomes more of a state issue as building and health code are by the state and local authorities. (although state code is based on IBC).

Let's say someone is from Europe and they open a bar and serve 19 year olds not knowing the law. Yes that gets shut down. If you have a strip club and they aren't even 18 (assuming no liquor).

State cannot interfere with contracts? Uh government is used to enforce contracts otherwise there would be violence. Let that sit for a minute. Let's say one company is in breech of contract with another. What's the recourse? Litigation. Under what laws? Well enforceable with government. Otherwise who would the third party be? Religion? Tribes?

Thank you. States are granted these powers (and many others) under the US Constitution. Amazing how so many constitutional "experts" don't understand this.

[justyouraveragetenant]

Originally Posted by htfdcolt

Here's where I have the problem. Businesses have been shut down worldwide by democratic governments. It's only in the US where this has been politicized and turned into a "rights" issue. Does anyone honestly think that state governments are out to shut down businesses (thereby starving themselves of tax revenue) and put people out of work? The whole premise is ludicrous. It's being done for one reason only--public safety.

oh no first of all people who seek power are the excact ones should not have it. Often they are psycho paths or have more of a chance to be.

If govenors put people out of work that means they gain more power adding more welfare. They take advantage of a crisis where they can dictate whatever they want. These states will be bailed out by the federal government. They are drunk on power. only the legislative branch is supposed to make laws not govenors or presidents. Govenors and presidents are the executive branch and there is a reason why they separated the branches for checks and ballances so one branch does not hold all the power.

executive orders are being abused by presidents and governors.

its like a police officer would hate for there to be no criminals because he would be out of a job. Governors love crisis because it gives them a purpose and makes sure they have a reason.

[justyouraveragetenant]

Originally Posted by mdovell

State governments can shut down businesses. This was not a political act but under the enforcement of the Board of health and the state department of public health. Read Mass Sanitation Code and get back to us. There are things that can happen and probably will continue to happen and be shut down. Same with building code and fire code. If you think you can take a property and put 20 people in a one bedroom apartment that's against code and yes you can shut down. When things cross borders then it becomes more of a state issue as building and health code are by the state and local authorities. (although state code is based on IBC).

Let's say someone is from Europe and they open a bar and serve 19 year olds not knowing the law. Yes that gets shut down. If you have a strip club and they aren't even 18 (assuming no liquor).

State cannot interfere with contracts? Uh government is used to enforce contracts otherwise there would be violence. Let that sit for a minute. Let's say one company is in breech of contract with another. What's the recourse? Litigation. Under what laws? Well enforceable with government. Otherwise who would the third party be? Religion? Tribes?

Ya the loophole is the board of health. the virus is not serious enough to do that though. these businesses did nothing wrong that voilated the board of health other then well some people might get sick so we will close down 90 percent of businesses.

Litigation falls under the judicial branch not the executive. A judge can shut down businesses but not governors.

[justyouraveragetenant]

Originally Posted by massnative71

Thank you. States are granted these powers (and many others) under the US Constitution. Amazing how so many constitutional "experts" don't understand this.

Well judge napalitano says no states can not shut down buisness.

here is the proof.


Clause 1. No State shall enter into any Treaty, Alliance, or Confederation; grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal; coin Money; emit Bills of Credit; make any Thing but gold and silver Coin a Tender in Payment of Debts; pass any Bill of Attainder, ex post facto Law, or Law impairing the Obligation of Contracts, or grant any Title of Nobility.

A law imapiring the obligation of contracts.

I showed you this before ....https://www.law.cornell.edu/constitu...on-10/clause-1

[massnative71]

Originally Posted by justyouraveragetenant

Well judge napalitano says no states can not shut down buisness.

here is the proof.


Clause 1. No State shall enter into any Treaty, Alliance, or Confederation; grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal; coin Money; emit Bills of Credit; make any Thing but gold and silver Coin a Tender in Payment of Debts; pass any Bill of Attainder, ex post facto Law, or Law impairing the Obligation of Contracts, or grant any Title of Nobility.

A law imapiring the obligation of contracts.

I showed you this before ....https://www.law.cornell.edu/constitu...on-10/clause-1

Irrelevant. Read Jacobson v. Massachusetts. You are also confusing "law" with executive order.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacobson_v._Massachusetts

[massnative71]

Originally Posted by justyouraveragetenant

oh no first of all people who seek power are the excact ones should not have it. Often they are psycho paths or have more of a chance to be.

If govenors put people out of work that means they gain more power adding more welfare. They take advantage of a crisis where they can dictate whatever they want. These states will be bailed out by the federal government. They are drunk on power. only the legislative branch is supposed to make laws not govenors or presidents. Govenors and presidents are the executive branch and there is a reason why they separated the branches for checks and ballances so one branch does not hold all the power.

executive orders are being abused by presidents and governors.

its like a police officer would hate for there to be no criminals because he would be out of a job. Governors love crisis because it gives them a purpose and makes sure they have a reason.

Originally Posted by justyouraveragetenant

Ya the loophole is the board of health. the virus is not serious enough to do that though. these businesses did nothing wrong that voilated the board of health other then well some people might get sick so we will close down 90 percent of businesses.

Litigation falls under the judicial branch not the executive. A judge can shut down businesses but not governors.

justyouraveragetenant, you have a right to your opinion and I will defend that right of yours to the very end even if I disagree with it. The problem has been, you keep presenting your opinions as "fact".

[justyouraveragetenant]

Originally Posted by massnative71

justyouraveragetenant, you have a right to your opinion and I will defend that right of yours to the very end even if I disagree with it. The problem has been, you keep presenting your opinions as "fact".

they allow big businesses to stay open like walmart and stop and shop but close small businesses.

every poster on here posts opinions as fact.

[htfdcolt]

Originally Posted by justyouraveragetenant

they allow big businesses to stay open like walmart and stop and shop but close small businesses.

every poster on here posts opinions as fact.

It's essential vs non-essential businesses. Ability to operate while social distancing, vs. not. It's not discriminatory and evil as you are surmising.