Coronavirus in Massachusetts (Boston: employment, university, stats)

[mdovell]

Well this just happened. France is making covid shots mandatory for medical personnel by sept 15. If you want to get on a train or see a movie in theater you need proof of a vaccine or a negative test.
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/07/12/fran...h-workers.html

[jayrandom]

Originally Posted by mdovell

Well this just happened. France is making covid shots mandatory for medical personnel by sept 15. If you want to get on a train or see a movie in theater you need proof of a vaccine or a negative test.
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/07/12/fran...h-workers.html

There still isn’t a vaccine approved for those under 12, a group that appears to be largely unaffected by the virus. Hopefully they make exceptions for kids at least until there is a viable vaccine for them.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wsj...nd-11625785260

[msRB311]

Apparently provincetown is seeing an uptick:

https://www.nbcboston.com/news/local...etown/2427606/

https://patch.com/massachusetts/barn...cases-cape-cod

[OutdoorLover]

Originally Posted by mdovell

Well this just happened. France is making covid shots mandatory for medical personnel by sept 15. If you want to get on a train or see a movie in theater you need proof of a vaccine or a negative test.
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/07/12/fran...h-workers.html

I just don't see how you can have healthcare staff who work with the public refuse vaccination and continue their duties. People come to a healthcare facility to improve their health, not to degrade it - that's not a subtle point, do no harm. Further I think it reflects poorly on those who refuse - whether it's their medical understanding, their judgement, how much they value patients... Of course if someone has a known health issue that constitutes a special risk, I can see making rational exceptions for them. But for others, especially in that line of work, I just don't see how you can accept that behavior. It's not accepted for many other microbial risks, and this is another one, it's not some completely different animal that's somehow fine for healthcare workers to pretend doesn't exist.

[Amontillado]

OutdoorLover, I entirely agree. Everyone ought to understand that this is a question of life and death.

[jayrandom]

Originally Posted by OutdoorLover

Regarding the effectiveness of masks, I haven't gone back to the literature, but my understand is that viral particles will often not be naked virus, but will be virus entrained in tiny mucous droplets. Not only do these make the effective particle size significantly larger, they make them "stickier", and if a particle touches the fiber of the mesh of a mask layer, even if can fit through the adjacent opening, it will be trapped on the mask by binding to the fiber. So simple analyses based on mesh opening size and naked viral particles may underestimate the effectiveness of masks. I know they're not 100% effective, but my impression from the articles I've read in the past is that the protection is significant.

What you’re saying is plausible but largely (educated) conjecture. In the absence of rigorous study it remains the best of many guesses. Maybe by now rigorous transmission studies have been done, but I haven’t seen them. A casual glance at infection rates vs mask policies suggest the effect is small.

That’s not to knock masks. It’s just to compare it to the vaccine research which is conclusive and overwhelming. I understand why people are skeptical of masks (even if I don’t entirely agree), but for goodness sake, vaccines definitely work. I know I’m shouting into the wind here, but I wish more people would listen.

[Urban Peasant]

Originally Posted by tribecavsbrowns

Well, it's an argument that the vaccines don't work well enough not to need a booster shot. Which makes the bleating about "get vaccinated so we can get back to normal" ring more than a little hollow. Which is what some of us have been saying the entire time.

In a way, the annual flu shot is a booster shot because the effectiveness wears out after half a year or so. The Covid vaccine works similarly I believe. We who recently got fully vaccinated with the Covid vaccine might not need a booster now but come six months time, things may change. Then you're probably one of those who don't believe in getting flu vaccines either.

[rach5]

Originally Posted by jayrandom

What you’re saying is plausible but largely (educated) conjecture. In the absence of rigorous study it remains the best of many guesses. Maybe by now rigorous transmission studies have been done, but I haven’t seen them. A casual glance at infection rates vs mask policies suggest the effect is small.

That’s not to knock masks. It’s just to compare it to the vaccine research which is conclusive and overwhelming. I understand why people are skeptical of masks (even if I don’t entirely agree), but for goodness sake, vaccines definitely work. I know I’m shouting into the wind here, but I wish more people would listen.

It looks like people have started doing studies, for instance https://www.thelancet.com/journals/l...293-4/fulltext
I haven't studied the details to see how rigorous it is, however...And one study is not overwhelming evidence.
Another thing that would be interesting is to see if the usefulness of masks varies. For instance, I know that there has been concern about transmission via the eye - and I could imagine that this would be a larger concern with the much more infectious delta variant. At any rate, wearing a cloth mask when nobody else is wearing a mask is probably not all that useful these days...
Masking (by everybody) may also be more useful if you are quickly passing another shopper in a grocery store, than if you are sitting right next to someone for hours in a concert hall or classroom..

[tribecavsbrowns]

Originally Posted by Urban Peasant

In a way, the annual flu shot is a booster shot because the effectiveness wears out after half a year or so. The Covid vaccine works similarly I believe. We who recently got fully vaccinated with the Covid vaccine might not need a booster now but come six months time, things may change. Then you're probably one of those who don't believe in getting flu vaccines either.

Haha. The old "you're right, but you're still an *******" gambit. I'll take it. As long as folks are dropping the dumbass "get vaccinated so we don't have to worry about this anymore" crap and are recognizing that the only sane way to approach this is as an endemic virus like flu, with an annual (or semi-annual, or whatever) shot for those who decide they want it.

[lrfox]

Originally Posted by tribecavsbrowns

Haha. The old "you're right, but you're still an *******" gambit. I'll take it. As long as folks are dropping the dumbass "get vaccinated so we don't have to worry about this anymore" crap and are recognizing that the only sane way to approach this is as an endemic virus like flu, with an annual (or semi-annual, or whatever) shot for those who decide they want it.

People have given up on eradicating COVID via the vaccine/herd immunity for quite some time now. The "get vaccinated so we don't have to worry about this anymore" attitude is mostly about preventing large scale outbreaks and limiting hospitalizations and deaths so that we can return to normal. The vaccine goes a long way toward helping that. I haven't heard anyone claim that the vaccine is going to make COVID disappear entirely for about a year now. The issue with the resistant folks is that they still make up a large enough chunk of the population for COVID to cause real problems.