Coronavirus in Massachusetts (Oxford: school, live, cost)

[rach5]

Originally Posted by GeoffD

It’s not so much that the CDC is behind, it’s that they are very slow to respond to the data. Institutional inertia. It took them forever to acknowledge aerosol transmission, for example. We also get lied to. “You don’t need a mask” was to prevent a rush on N95 PPE needed for hospitals. I suspect we’re being lied to now about booster shots.

Absolutely, I agree, and very well put. Inertia in a setting that requires a quick and nimble response. Kind of sad when the WHO is much more forward looking than the CDC, however... Political messaging over truth telling. Part of it may be that telling the truth often would lead to much more complicated messaging that doesn't sell well (can you imagine selling the need for a third booster shot in 6 months when half of the country won't even get a single shot?). I personally don't trust anything they put out anymore.

[LeavingMA]

Originally Posted by Amontillado

Because the extremely aggressive Delta variant is rapidly spreading among unvaccinated people.

Says the mass media with no support. Meanwhile studies from the UK and Israel (two of the highest vaccinated countries) show the majority getting sick are vaccinated.

On the same note, its interesting that last December and January when cases and deaths were highest was when we starting vaccinating (mostly the elderly). It continues the same with many countries that were doing great and then started vaccinated and all of a sudden its "oh no", but lets just blame the unvaccinated without any data to do so.

[GeoffD]

Originally Posted by LeavingMA

Says the mass media with no support. Meanwhile studies from the UK and Israel (two of the highest vaccinated countries) show the majority getting sick are vaccinated.

On the same note, its interesting that last December and January when cases and deaths were highest was when we starting vaccinating (mostly the elderly). It continues the same with many countries that were doing great and then started vaccinated and all of a sudden its "oh no", but lets just blame the unvaccinated without any data to do so.

Hyperbole, like usual. Even Rupert Murdock’s WSJ writes that around half of Israeli infections are people who were vaccinated 6+ months ago. This is an argument for a booster shot, not an argument that vaccines don’t work. Furthermore, the infections being detected are from contract tracing and they’re asymptomatic or mild with very few severe cases among the vaccinated. It’s why Israel opted to refrain from pulling the plug on their economy. They can live with asymptomatic and mild symptoms among the vaccinated. Nobody can properly deal with a large outbreak among unvaccinated people where the hospitals overflow.

Citation: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wsj...ak-11624624326

[mdovell]

When it comes down to it the reason why Delta is spreading is because vaccination rates have not been high enough.

https://www.bostonglobe.com/2021/07/...urist-hotspot/

The fact that an area that fought mask mandates has people in it wondering why the Delta variant is spread all over there but didn't hit the Northeast is hard is mind-boggling. The longer of viruses out in the wild and spreads without vaccinations the higher the likelihood would be that it would mutate and go around the current vaccine.

I've had some conversations and I think it's going to end up getting to the point where we're going to have to have some denial of benefits or services to those that do not show immunization. Yes there are the hippo laws and you cannot ask somebody personally if they've been vaccinated but at the same point you can say that the only way to obtain the service is with the vaccination card. Choosing to not be vaccinated is not a protected class. Religious exemptions have been debated and much of that is starting to be denied.

So with that in mind think of every single payment and service which is given and what the reaction would be if we denied it due to a lack of immunization. I'm sorry no social security check Grandpa until you get back to me. I'm sorry no mortgage deduction for your taxes until you get vaccinated. I'm sorry but no in-person attendance at public school until you get vaccinated . I'm sorry but no daycare can accept a student or enrollee until they get back to vaccinated.

Think of all the people that were denied Healthcare last year because the priority was for helping those that were on covid. Now that the vaccine is out why should we bother to treat people that refuse the vaccine for months on end? I personally know people that had chemotherapy at heart surgery delayed because of this. No one in this country should be bumped from the healthcare system because there isn't enough room because it's loaded with people with the Delta varient.

[rach5]

The message from the Mississippi public health department that "All M. residents with chronic underlying medical conditions should avoid all indoor mass gatherings (irrespective of vaccination status)", as well as all those 65 + is worrisome. https://twitter.com/ashishkjha/statu...726082/photo/1 What do they know that the CDC isn't telling us?

[OutdoorLover]

Originally Posted by rach5

The message from the Mississippi public health department that "All M. residents with chronic underlying medical conditions should avoid all indoor mass gatherings (irrespective of vaccination status)", as well as all those 65 + is worrisome. https://twitter.com/ashishkjha/statu...726082/photo/1 What do they know that the CDC isn't telling us?

I am not quite sure what you're trying to imply here, but if there's some deviation between guidance given by different public health officials, it doesn't have to mean that one of them is "lying". You're not exactly saying that of course, but I've seen plenty of people say exactly that.

The reality is, that there are a lot of complex factors at play here. First there is the virus and the pandemic, both of which are evolving over time, then there is the science, which is evolving over time. Then there are all the compromises involved when you request public health measures be implemented - inconveniences and what can in some cases be significant difficulties in some people's lives, impacts on businesses, etc, - all that needs to be weighed against the benefits. Then there is also judging the public psyche and trying to understand what they will support - even if you're correct from a medical/public health perspective, if people refuse and stop listening, then the ask was too big, and you've made further work harder.

All of this means that reasonable, knowledgeable people can differ on how to do public outreach and what guidelines are really appropriate. There is really no requirement for incompetence, or dishonesty or nefarious motives to be at play - as so frequently is being alleged.

[rach5]

To ask more than 50% of the adult population, including the vaccinated, to abstain from mass indoor gatherings (defined as what exactly? Is a crowded mall or grocery store ok, but a concert hall is not?) is a pretty substantial warning when the CDC has declared that vaccinated individuals are safe without masks anywhere, without qualifications (evidence was already starting to come out from Singapore that delta was spreading amongst and via fully mRNA vaccinated people when the CDC made that announcement - so a more cautious and nuanced approach would have been better even at the time; as the WHO has said many times, if you wait until the evidence is certain wrt covid, you are already far too late).

[msRB311]

I think a grocery store is quite different than a concert hall. There are hundreds of people sitting in the concert hall together for hours. At the grocery store people are in and out pretty quickly and the one I go to is not crowded, at least not whenever I go

Also I know there was a bruins game not long ago that was packed, indoors and not everyone was wearing a mask. As far as I know there was no covid outbreak from that game and numbers didn't tick up.

At this point I think it's up to the individual and what they feel comfortable doing. If there happens to more outbreaks then decisions will be made from there.

[htfdcolt]

Originally Posted by LeavingMA

Says the mass media with no support. .

100% of Maryland's COVID deaths in June were unvaccinated people. Nationwide, the number is 99.2%. No support?

https://www.baltimoresun.com/coronav...hnq-story.html

[htfdcolt]

Originally Posted by msRB311

I think a grocery store is quite different than a concert hall. There are hundreds of people sitting in the concert hall together for hours. At the grocery store people are in and out pretty quickly and the one I go to is not crowded, at least not whenever I go

Also I know there was a bruins game not long ago that was packed, indoors and not everyone was wearing a mask. As far as I know there was no covid outbreak from that game and numbers didn't tick up.

At this point I think it's up to the individual and what they feel comfortable doing. If there happens to more outbreaks then decisions will be made from there.

Agree. I think the Baker administration has shown that they look at lots of numbers, including the wastewater stats (which are a leading indicator), and will react quickly if they see anything disturbing. With our high vax%, it's a good test case as to whether variants gain any "legs" in our state.