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I give you one main reason that cops use excessive force because our criminal justice system just aren't effective anymore. When you're a police officer in an urban city, you see the same kind of crime each day. You make a civil arrest and the criminal hits you back and you can't do anything. The criminal is released the same day with a fine and no bail required. The criminal is out on the loose again. Then several hours later the criminal is caught yet again in a violent crime beating or mugging someone. The cops arrest him again, same result.
Our system is putting police officers work in jeopardy and no longer rehabbing criminals or doing anything to end the cycle of repeat offenders.
Many cops just tired of being picked on by criminals because of recent anti-cop movement. Many don't want to make any arrests, just go write up traffic tickets and leave the poor neighborhoods to fend for themselves (Chicago south side)
Some neighborhoods are so bad because police are no longer policing due to police being blamed for excessive force yet criminal justice not putting criminals away.
American justice system has no solution for repeat criminals that terrorize innocent people and police officers are tired of the rotating door of re-arresting the same felons. Once you fix the criminal justice system by putting a lot of people away for good for a long time they will realize committing a crime is not a joke. Right now as long as they don't get caught killing anybody they can continue to rob, steal, mug anyone without fearing doing hard time.
What you've described here may be a legitimate indictment of the criminal justice system in many places but is no reason at all for police officers using excessive force. It is not the responsibility of a police officer to address the shortcomings of the judicial system and only arrogance and poor training and supervision are reflected in your statements.
If cops have the mindset that they are "tired of being picked on by criminals" they need to address that concern within the police department or find another line of work. Certainly that idea is not even close to a valid argument for abusing the public.
Yeah we're all so relaxed right now, flush with cash. For most of these cities, $1200 is less than 1 month rent for a 1br apartment. And a lot of people don't qualify for unemployment or are backlogged waiting on it. Some people can't get unemployment for a variety of circumstances such as not having the right job. Unemployment is helping some people, far from all, and in most cases they'd probably rather have steady jobs than short-term stipends that are going away soon.
The protest movement / riots stopped being about Floyd on the 2nd day. Floyd is the just the latest in a long list of grievances. You'd think if we were so much better than 1967-69, there wouldn't be any riots anymore. Somehow they keep happening and they're worse now than they have been in a while. Makes you wonder if we'll ever stop to think if we're actually doing any good or anything at all to alleviate the problems laid out by the Kerner Commission. Maybe the fact that they don't perceive things getting better is part of the problem?
Oh but it's the insidious Antifa, the new communists under the bed, that we can blame for all this.
I don't want to imply that NO ONE is getting hurt financially by the Covid shutdown, that's why I used "many" and "most" when talking about the target group of the thread, the folks who are mingling / hiding among the genuine protesters, only to strike when opportunity presents itself (the looters, arsonists, vandals, and thugs). Anyone already collecting a government check (SS, welfare, etc.) has been unaffected. Teachers have been getting paid, along with all other "essential" workers (healthcare, food processing, distribution and sales, transportation and repair of same, etc., etc.). Yes, unemployment delays are causing cash flow problems for many, but neither one of us knows who exactly is doing the rioting - you would like people to believe they are hardworking airliner pilots or restaurant owners who have been thrown out of work and cannot feed their families - and those people HAVE been hurt greatly by the Covid shutdown, as have many investors - but I tend to think that many of the "rioters" are folks that were recently released from lockup due to municipalities trying to stop the spread of the virus. But all of that is a different thread, the OP's question is "Is it ethical to shoot looters and arsonists?". The poll results are mixed but if the results were a presidential election, they would be called a "landslide".
Whether the instigators of much of this are "Antifa", or other left-wing groups set on destroying the fabric of our cities, or are simply scum that see an opportunity to get themselves a new flat screen and burn something just to watch the smoke, the mayors (and governors, for that matter) of our great cities have dropped the ball so hard on this it can be heard in Melbourne. Again, I call for the resurrection of Chicago Mayor Richard J. Daley: "Shoot to maim looters, shoot to kill arsonists". When they are in the hospitals getting their knees repaired (or in the morgue, still holding books of matches and smelling of gasoline), we can determine whether they were Antifa, White Supremacists, oppressed inner-city residents who were failed by the school system (that we spend fifteen grand per head on each year), or even Russian spies bent on helping Trump win the next election; we can better argue how to prevent it next time.
Where is the National Guard, and why are they being told to stand down when innocents are being murdered by criminals on the streets of our cities? Our leaders have failed us, once again, by showing criminals that there is no consequence to behavior that is nothing short of evil.
If you have a right to absolutely own private property, you have the right to defend that property from trespass with deadly force.
If you only have a privilege to own real estate, you have no privilege to defend that property from trespass.
Remember, private property is constitutionally protected, whereas real estate is subject to ad valorem taxation.
It's come up in Minneapolis, but it seems to be a trouble spot whenever there's an evacuation for a hurricane or key event. Curious what the CD thinks.
Yes, law and order must be priority #1.
People must be ensured their rights, but any violations of said rights should be addressed peacefully. Even rowdy protests are no excuse for rioting/looting.
It's come up in Minneapolis, but it seems to be a trouble spot whenever there's an evacuation for a hurricane or key event. Curious what the CD thinks.
I saw a video someone posted on face book where people, Americans, were on their porch watching the National Guard march down their street. The Guard yelled for the people to get inside, they didn't so several of the Guards men stopped, aimed their rifles at the non violent citizens standing on their private property and shot a volley of rubber bullets at them. The people moved back into the house.
I wonder how some people, the ones that believe in freedom and the Second amendment would have responded being shot at by our own National Guard while innocently and not threatening in any manner but standing on their front porch watching? Rubber bullet meets a full metal jacket rifle round...
I saw a video someone posted on face book where people, Americans, were on their porch watching the National Guard march down their street. The Guard yelled for the people to get inside, they didn't so several of the Guards men stopped, aimed their rifles at the non violent citizens standing on their private property and shot a volley of rubber bullets at them. The people moved back into the house.
I wonder how some people, the ones that believe in freedom and the Second amendment would have responded being shot at by our own National Guard while innocently and not threatening in any manner but standing on their front porch watching? Rubber bullet meets a full metal jacket rifle round...
Sure it really happened that way? How much taunting went on before the NG fired rubber bullets?
I'm sure this wasn't a case of nice church folk sitting on their porch singing church hymns and suddenly the NG decided to fire on them.
To answer the poll question, shooting an arsonist about set fire to an occupied building would be legally justified. Shooting a looter simply stealing would not.
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