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You ignore that most mass shooters aren't even going think about giving a damn about your "WARNING", they expect to die, either by their own hand or by cop. All they care about is killing as many people as possible before they themselves are killed. They don't care about who is carrying what when where. They do not care. They only care about killing. Nikolas Cruz did not kill the seventeen victims in Parkland because it a "gun free zone". he would have attacked that school even if a SWAT team was there. He wouldn't have cared. Some girl hurt him, and that's what sent him to the zoo. The guy that killed all of those in Las Vegas didn't do so because it was a "gun free zone", he did it because he wanted to kill a lot of people. He ended up committing suicide. He wasn't concerned about avoiding a good guy with a gun...he would have killed that guy too. The guy that killed those at the Pulse nightclub didn't go there because it was a "gun free zone". He went there because he hated gay people and wanted to kill as many as he could. The guy that shot Gabby Giffords didn't go to a "gun free zone", he went to kill Gabby Giffords. Same with the guy that shot Senator Scalise. He didn't go to the baseball game because it was a "gun free zone", he didn't think "well here's a nice safe place to kill people!" he went there because that's where the people he wanted to kill happened to be.
You might say "well it made it easier that there weren't armed people there." No, it made it convenient that all of them were in the same place. It wouldn't have made a lick of difference to those shooters if some or even all of those people were armed.
These shooters, they don't care about good guys with guns. They won't avoid them, they will try and kill them too.
actually what your saying is not always true............ I was surprised after reading about this wacko........he was 14
You do not seem to understand the role of teachers, the military or police. Teachers, the military or police are generally paid by the government. People do not become teachers to protect your children from armed intruders and are generally not trained that way. The military is not there to "enforce the government" as you say and you would know that if you had served. The oath of service is to support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic. You can refuse, and are obligated, to not follow illegal orders. Soldiers generally do not wish to be police or baby sitters. Police are there to enforce the law which is slightly different than enforcing the government.
I do not like the idea of having a bunch of underpaid, under trained and disrespected having guns around unarmed children.
There you go using the word you were spoonfed again. I am sorry you are not capable of individual thought. You say you want an adult debate but you keep lying. I have never said I do not trust the people and only trust cops. You want an adult conversation? Link the source?
Once a government goes tyrannical, the military is its enforcement. You should know this from history. It never occurs going from white to black, it starts out in the gray. What enables many military and police to enforce tyranny is their dependency on their pay and pensions. Katrina and Watertown are prime examples of government out of control. The police in Watertown went door to door entering homes with no warrants looking for one 18 year old thug. Police went door to door confiscating guns during Katrina in order to protect themselves, while leaving Americans unarmed to protect themselves. National guard with them. Completely outrageous.
Teachers not being trained to protect students is irrelevant. Self preservation is natural. Again, I have never advocated teachers act as cops and pursue shooters. I've only advocated they defend themselves and students in their class. This is not the rocket science you make it to be. Millions of Americans CC everyday, with no problems. A select few teachers who "volunteer" and are trained can be a deterrent and resource during an event.
Perhaps you ought to think about the views of others. We've thought about yours.
I had considered his opinions early on. What he continues to assert is that teachers are not capable of protecting themselves and children and this should be left to cops. I understand his concern that introducing armed teachers into classrooms comes with a certain level of risk, but he hyperboles this risk comparing it to homes.
I'm sick and tired of the constant whining for gun control as if it is a solution. It's not. I'm sick and tired of people asserting that citizens not trained to be cops are incapable of courage and protecting themselves and students. It worked great in Israel, it can easily work here.
I had considered his opinions early on. What he continues to assert is that teachers are not capable of protecting themselves and children and this should be left to cops. I understand his concern that introducing armed teachers into classrooms comes with a certain level of risk, but he hyperboles this risk comparing it to homes.
I'm sick and tired of the constant whining for gun control as if it is a solution. It's not. I'm sick and tired of people asserting that citizens not trained to be cops are incapable of courage and protecting themselves and students. It worked great in Israel, it can easily work here.
Ok, let's talk about Israel
Far from the image of a heavily armed population where ordinary people have their own arsenals to repel attackers, Israel allows its people to acquire firearms only if they can prove their professions or places of residence put them in danger. The country relies on its security services, not armed citizens, to prevent terror attacks
Israel never had “a whole lot of school shootings.” Authorities could only recall two in the past four decades.
Israel has armed personnel only at the entrance to schools, not inside the schools. Israel’s lightly armed school guards are not the first or the last line of defense. They are backed up by special police forces on motorcycles that can be on the scene within minutes — again bringing out the main, but not the only, difference between the two systems.
Gun Licensing requires multiple levels of screening, and permits must be renewed every three years. Renewal is not automatic.
Eighty percent of the 10,000 people who apply yearly for licenses are turned down, he said.
In Israel, applicants must undergo police screening and medical exams, in part to determine their mental state, Amit said.
I had considered his opinions early on. What he continues to assert is that teachers are not capable of protecting themselves and children and this should be left to cops. I understand his concern that introducing armed teachers into classrooms comes with a certain level of risk, but he hyperboles this risk comparing it to homes.
I'm sick and tired of the constant whining for gun control as if it is a solution. It's not. I'm sick and tired of people asserting that citizens not trained to be cops are incapable of courage and protecting themselves and students. It worked great in Israel, it can easily work here.
Did it ever occur to you that we are sick and tired of the whining of the gun folks? Did it ever occur to you that we are sick and tired of ignoring key words of the 2nd Amendment? Did it ever occur to you that I personally am tired of hearing you talk about guns in schools? I'm the school administrator here, and while I may not know much about handling guns, I know schools. And if there is any hyperbole in the overall discussion it comes from people like Wayne LaPierre and folks like you. Oh, and by the way...this isn't Israel.
Thank you for sharing that, Jeff. Now I'll be up the rest of the night wondering where the hell that guy is, and hoping he's locked up somewhere. Preferably fitted with a hug-me jacket. These people that plan and do these things either never had what the rest of us have or lost it somewhere. For some reason I have a need to understand why they do what they do, beyond the obvious "they're effed up." Peeking into their heads is terrifying.
Last edited by geekigurl; 03-04-2018 at 02:34 AM..
Did it ever occur to you that we are sick and tired of the whining of the gun folks? Did it ever occur to you that we are sick and tired of ignoring key words of the 2nd Amendment? Did it ever occur to you that I personally am tired of hearing you talk about guns in schools? I'm the school administrator here, and while I may not know much about handling guns, I know schools. And if there is any hyperbole in the overall discussion it comes from people like Wayne LaPierre and folks like you. Oh, and by the way...this isn't Israel.
"Gun folks" aren't the ones whining. We are on the defensive because "anti-gun folks" keep whining for more useless gun control laws. Being a school administrator doesn't qualify you to claim that qualified trained teachers aren't capable of being armed and defending their classroom. I'm going to assume you don't think we have a school mass shooting problem since you see no need for good guys with guns in your school. We don't live in your utopian la la land.
Location: Born in L.A. - NYC is Second Home - Rustbelt is Home Base
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maat55
I had considered his opinions early on. What he continues to assert is that teachers are not capable of protecting themselves and children and this should be left to cops. I understand his concern that introducing armed teachers into classrooms comes with a certain level of risk, but he hyperboles this risk comparing it to homes.
I'm sick and tired of the constant whining for gun control as if it is a solution. It's not. I'm sick and tired of people asserting that citizens not trained to be cops are incapable of courage and protecting themselves and students. It worked great in Israel, it can easily work here.
Concur...real life success proves the Dem gun confiscators wrong.
"Gun folks" aren't the ones whining. We are on the defensive because "anti-gun folks" keep whining for more useless gun control laws. Being a school administrator doesn't qualify you to claim that qualified trained teachers aren't capable of being armed and defending their classroom. I'm going to assume you don't think we have a school mass shooting problem since you see no need for good guys with guns in your school. We don't live in your utopian la la land.
1. I am as qualified to talk about schools as you are to talk about guns.
2. You people whined for 8 years about how Obama was going to take away your guns. How many guns were taken away?
3. Your assumption is addled. I've made it perfectly clear that I support armed police officers being in our schools. Your assumption, and the lie that Obama was taking away guns, are two more examples of how gun-lovers will make stuff up in their frenzy to create their own little arsenals.
Once a government goes tyrannical, the military is its enforcement. You should know this from history. It never occurs going from white to black, it starts out in the gray. What enables many military and police to enforce tyranny is their dependency on their pay and pensions.
Well having served in the US military I feel I have a better perspective on how it works, compared to you, someone that has never served. You live in fear, I understand. It is a scary, complex, and confusing world out there. So you carry a gun which you think will protect you. I understand. Some people have service animals you have a gun. I get it.
But you are the weakness in the gun chain, not the gun. You have a bad day, get stressed, get scared, feel slighted and it could come out and be a danger to more level headed people AND to add to that you may not even take out your frustrations on the person you have a problem with but on those that you are not scared of.
It is sad the amount of old busted down has-beens that cannot face what they are that decide to take the cowards way out.
The Las Vegas shooter: Broke
The holocaust museum shooter: Broke
I could go on.
You have a fear of "The Government" but you fail to recognize that teachers are "The Government" and jump though hoops to justify your position. Scary, confusing, complex world, huh?
And you paint "The Government" with a broad brush but you are being lead by your "statist" spouting messiahs. I feel people like you are much easier to lead around by the nose ring than the military.
Quote:
Originally Posted by maat55
Katrina and Watertown are prime examples of government out of control. The police in Watertown went door to door entering homes with no warrants looking for one 18 year old thug. Police went door to door confiscating guns during Katrina in order to protect themselves, while leaving Americans unarmed to protect themselves. National guard with them. Completely outrageous.
So wait? Let me get this straight, "The Government" went door to door and confiscated guns? And none of these brave, heroic, gun owners stopped them? WTF have you been talking about for 30 pages? I thought the guns were supposed to magically protect the people from "The Government"?
Quote:
Originally Posted by maat55
Teachers not being trained to protect students is irrelevant.
Not relevant to you but it is to me and others.
Quote:
Originally Posted by maat55
Self preservation is natural.
Self preservation at the expense of others is not what I am looking for.
Quote:
Originally Posted by maat55
Again, I have never advocated teachers act as cops and pursue shooters. I've only advocated they defend themselves and students in their class. This is not the rocket science you make it to be. Millions of Americans CC everyday, with no problems. A select few teachers who "volunteer" and are trained can be a deterrent and resource during an event.
I disagree. I think George Zimmerman is a great example of what can, and does, happen when scared and powerless people have guns.
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