Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I worked at a range until just a few months ago and we saw all types in there. Do not underestimate the skills that a civilian can develop. It's only training. If there are teachers that are willing to become trained, they should be given the choice. A fighting chance is better than using your body as a shield. We host USPSA style matches every week. Most of those shooters are civilian from all walks of life. I wouldn't want to challenge them.
We also have tons of law enforcement that frequent that range. Those folks in uniform were civilians until they received training.....but weapons training is only a small part of what they must learn. Believe me a uniform is no guarantee of being an expert marksman or firearm tactician by a long shot.
I never criticized firing ranges did I? My husband and I both enjoy go to firing ranges. The only context in which I brought up firing ranges was to suggest to maat the he go shoot a semi-auto rifle with a high cap magazine to get a better understanding of the weapon better before he talks about teachers having a shootout when someone with an AR-15 gets the drop on them.
Even a cop can't win that fight you can't walk into a hail of bullets and have a shootout. Why would you suggest a teacher can do what a cop can't? And Trump wants the weapons concealed, which I assume means they would be in a concealed holster or in your pants pocket or bra (I guess the alternative is to walk around the class all day with a gun in your hand)?
So, do me a favor and tell me how many seconds it takes you to draw a pistol aim it so as not to kill kids who might be hit by crossfire and fire a round vs how long it takes a suicidal shooter with an AR-15 with a 30 round magazine who is already firing his weapon when he enters the room.
I know it's not as sexy a solution, but how about just make the room harder to get into and put bullet proof glass in all the windows, fence the school perimeter and have a police officer or auxiliary police officer patrol the exterior of the school? And maybe do better vetting of people who want to buy those kinds of guns?
And make the NRA pay for enhanced school security since it was their nonsense fear mongering that caused gun madness in this Country
If teachers all were armed with a pistol, any gunman entering the school, would first shoot teachers before they had a chance to shoot the gunman. Some small woman teacher in a pantsuit, would be no match as they would become the first target. Putting a teacher against a man with a bullet proof vest, and an assault rifle is not a fair fight.
And to get good with a pistol, is not something you can teach a teacher in a couple of lessons. My paternal grandfather was a gunfighter in the Montana cattle wars in the late 1800s, and he was the one that taught me to shoot. He got out of that business, when he met my grandmother who was an army nurse at a fort in Montana. She told him she would only marry him, if he gave up the guns and moved to California. He did.
He made me a pretty good man with a gun. (All but a shotgun on moving targets. I don't get the lead right. Though I can hit a running jack rabbit from the hip as an example with either a rifle or pistol.) Someone like me, would possibly be able to take down someone shooting at a school. But the average person man or woman, with a short training with a pistol, would not be a good answer. They would just be the first one shot.
I never criticized firing ranges did I? My husband and I both enjoy go to firing ranges. The only context in which I brought up firing ranges was to suggest to maat the he go shoot a semi-auto rifle with a high cap magazine to get a better understanding of the weapon better before he talks about teachers having a shootout when someone with an AR-15 gets the drop on them.
Even a cop can't win that fight you can't walk into a hail of bullets and have a shootout. Why would you suggest a teacher can do what a cop can't? And Trump wants the weapons concealed, which I assume means they would be in a concealed holster or in your pants pocket or bra (I guess the alternative is to walk around the class all day with a gun in your hand)?
So, do me a favor and tell me how many seconds it takes you to draw a pistol aim it so as not to kill kids who might be hit by crossfire and fire a round vs how long it takes a suicidal shooter with an AR-15 with a 30 round magazine who is already firing his weapon when he enters the room.
I know it's not as sexy a solution, but how about just make the room harder to get into and put bullet proof glass in all the windows, fence the school perimeter and have a police officer or auxiliary police officer patrol the exterior of the school? And maybe do better vetting of people who want to buy those kinds of guns?
And make the NRA pay for enhanced school security since it was their nonsense fear mongering that caused gun madness in this Country
I own an AR-15 and have shot it many times. Gun fights are not won by the one with the biggest gun, they are won by he/she who puts the first round/rounds on target. A 9mm round will kill just as quick as a .223 round. What will get you killed quicker is having nothing for defense.
In many of these school shootings, the shooter is going room to room. If I were a teacher and heard shots, it would be easy for me to position myself to surprise the shooter if he enters my room. Given the option to shoot at the shooter or hide under a desk, I would much rather shoot at him with a pistol.
Are you under the impression that when someone starts shooting at people they flock around him? In a classroom, I assure you the shooter will be isolated and easy to acquire without shooting a student, especially if get him at the door. Your lack of common sense is disturbing.
Many of the teachers are kind of looney.I feel the kids would be in greater danger from them! Armed guards and locked doors are the key. Besides people having decent households where they talk to their kids.
Believe me a uniform is no guarantee of being an expert marksman or firearm tactician by a long shot.
The sad truth is that you do not need to be an "expert marksman", tactics will definitely help but as with the military your usually training to fight the last war.
Are you under the impression that when someone starts shooting at people they flock around him? In a classroom, I assure you the shooter will be isolated and easy to acquire without shooting a student, especially if get him at the door. Your lack of common sense is disturbing.
This is all great until you accidentally shoot an innocent and have years worth of lawsuits in front of you on a teachers salary.
This is sort of similar to modern day terrorism and its goals. When the terrorists attack us, they are not only seeking to kill as many people as possible, but to also change the mindset of the public and Govt, the more terrorist attacks that happen, the more laws and regulations that get passed and enacted, and more people are totally fine with giving up freedoms if they think they are going to be safer or more secure...so while many people may say 'We are not going to let the terrorists win and/ or effect us", thats not necessarily true, the terrorists 'win' every time more freedoms are taken away under the guise of safety/ security.
When you step back and look at the big picture and how certain things are being accomplished, its really very clever what they are doing.
I never criticized firing ranges did I? My husband and I both enjoy go to firing ranges. The only context in which I brought up firing ranges was to suggest to maat the he go shoot a semi-auto rifle with a high cap magazine to get a better understanding of the weapon better before he talks about teachers having a shootout when someone with an AR-15 gets the drop on them.
Even a cop can't win that fight you can't walk into a hail of bullets and have a shootout. Why would you suggest a teacher can do what a cop can't? And Trump wants the weapons concealed, which I assume means they would be in a concealed holster or in your pants pocket or bra (I guess the alternative is to walk around the class all day with a gun in your hand)?
So, do me a favor and tell me how many seconds it takes you to draw a pistol aim it so as not to kill kids who might be hit by crossfire and fire a round vs how long it takes a suicidal shooter with an AR-15 with a 30 round magazine who is already firing his weapon when he enters the room.
I know it's not as sexy a solution, but how about just make the room harder to get into and put bullet proof glass in all the windows, fence the school perimeter and have a police officer or auxiliary police officer patrol the exterior of the school? And maybe do better vetting of people who want to buy those kinds of guns?
And make the NRA pay for enhanced school security since it was their nonsense fear mongering that caused gun madness in this Country
I don't know why you're even saying most of this. First, I never said you criticized ranges. I was merely providing some evidence of my experience relative to the statements that I was making, that I am not an empty hat.
I'm suggesting a civilian can do what a cop can't because I have repeatedly seen it. Like I said, cops are just like you and I, but with some training which is available to anyone who wants it. And of course it should be concealed carry. Don't be obtuse. Openly carrying a firearm makes you the first target to be taken out.
So do you a favor and tell you how fast I could draw and shoot. OK, on my range qualifications, I can draw from a holster (level 2 retention) and fire two rounds center of mass in under 3 seconds at 5 yards. I can do the same as per the test at 10 and 15 yards in under 4 seconds. I was NEVER a rapid fire marksman prior to working there so I had to learn to do that in a matter of months. It's just training. My expertise was 4 position smallbore, I wasn't even fond of handguns.
Layered defenses are an excellent idea. Howevr, they failed even the minimum considered SOP around here. Bullet proof glass is hideously expensive and is not practical given educational budgets. There are plenty of other ideas that could be usedimplemented first.
And finally that the NRA fear mongering, as you put it, is responsible for everything is one of the most stupid things I've heard. You want to blame something, blame the idiot who came up advertising gun free zones. Hey, we're a kill box for the latest psychotic nut job on the block.
I own an AR-15 and have shot it many times. Gun fights are not won by the one with the biggest gun, they are won by he/she who puts the first round/rounds on target. A 9mm round will kill just as quick as a .223 round. What will get you killed quicker is having nothing for defense.
In many of these school shootings, the shooter is going room to room. If I were a teacher and heard shots, it would be easy for me to position myself to surprise the shooter if he enters my room. Given the option to shoot at the shooter or hide under a desk, I would much rather shoot at him with a pistol.
Are you under the impression that when someone starts shooting at people they flock around him? In a classroom, I assure you the shooter will be isolated and easy to acquire without shooting a student, especially if get him at the door. Your lack of common sense is disturbing.
This is all great until you accidentally shoot an innocent and have years worth of lawsuits in front of you on a teachers salary.
So better to just let a shooter go his merry way than to attempt to legally intervene? Studies by the Crime Prevention Research Center, Gary Kleck and others (data which has been repeatedly cited in studies on firearms violence) indicates that defensive firearm uses heavily outnumber criminal offensive uses (some sources indicate almost an order of magnitude difference), almost uniformly without collateral damage.
There was an article just last week that concealed carry at University of Kansas celebrated its one year anniversary. The results? A 13% drop in crime in one year and not one single complaint about firearm possession or use. It's axiomatic that guns in the hands of law abiding citizen are very rarely a problem.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
