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Haha, not even 2 blocks away. 300 feet at most. They just added the sidewalk area on Dickinson Ave between the church and Joyner library to make it all one district. They should have done that before.
Now they're going to go back and forth again tonight about this whole 500ft bar/club business. It should have been lifted a year or two ago. No other city in NC the size of Greenville or larger has that type of restriction. It's prevented downtown from developing as quickly as it could.
By the way, the ordinance was approved, but there is a call to not have minimum distances around the city as well.
Honestly, I dont understand why the area indicated on the map wasnt extended at least to the Town Common.
Greenville is still struggling with the past "you have to control this" mentality and "claiming" to be progressive at the same time. They need to look to Wilmington's different districts for guidance here. Wilmington somehow has a soda pop district, Castle St district, South Front district, North 4th district and Cargo district all within its urban footprint to encourage investment. Greenville is NOT progressive. It is taking steps to be now, but there are too many folks from a bygone era still trying to control things.
The latest was the claims that the Hilton Garden Inn did not support this new more liberal ordinance.
Status:
"48 years in MD, 18 in NC"
(set 16 days ago)
Location: Greenville, NC
2,309 posts, read 6,105,617 times
Reputation: 1430
Quote:
Originally Posted by HP91
Greenville is still struggling with the past "you have to control this" mentality
There is actually a very good reason that the 500 foot rule was enacted. Not too long ago Greenville had a lot more murders and muggings than it has now. Take 8 bars and put them in a one or two block area, and you have a recipe for disaster. When you put that many inebriated people close together, fights will break out, and people will get an attitude and pull out a weapon and start shooting. Also, it's a magnet for perps that want to find easy prey and it doesn't get much easier than drunk college students and their friends.
Yes, what happened downtown 10+ years ago was tragic. Greenville's downtown was pretty much the wild wild west during that time. Changes were made and they did need to be made. But as we know, there are unintended consequences for every decision made. Greenville's downtown has not developed as quickly as it could have. Its absolutely been harder for new entertainment establishments to locate in the city as a whole.
Just because bars are allowed again, doesn't mean they will all become college bars and get back to the level of what is once was. Demographics have changed. Cocktail bars & barcades that are 21+ can locate in uptown. I think you can promote the type of growth you want while restricting things enough to not have a wild west scenario.
Gun violence happens everywhere with sober individuals making terrible decisions. We've seen shootings at the mall where theres nowhere to buy alcohol. But they don't try to restrict new stores from entering into the mall.
I was actually out visiting these bars and clubs during the wild west days. That was my prime "party" phase of my life. I know exactly how it was. There's a big difference between the wild west and a stagnant downtown . People enjoy drinking. People enjoy going out to drink. People enjoy dancing or listening to live music. And they don't want to go to a college club to do it.
.
Let's give it a chance. I believe things will go better this time around.
There is actually a very good reason that the 500 foot rule was enacted. Not too long ago Greenville had a lot more murders and muggings than it has now. Take 8 bars and put them in a one or two block area, and you have a recipe for disaster. When you put that many inebriated people close together, fights will break out, and people will get an attitude and pull out a weapon and start shooting. Also, it's a magnet for perps that want to find easy prey and it doesn't get much easier than drunk college students and their friends.
It was an over reach due to a handful on incidents. At the same time, the Pitt County school system enacted system wide uniforms.
Perfect example of what I am talking about. "Its the bars fault, we have gangs in our schools". What really needed to happen was more active policing, code enforcement, redevelopment, etc...
If you have a problem, deal with that, don't make it a community issue and overreach. And over regulate. Its still over regulated, that's why you had two separate social districts, because lord knows there is a church parking lot in between the two. Apparently the church gets to dictate what everyone should do.
BTW that 500 foot rule existed back in the late 80's and was considered archaic.
Status:
"48 years in MD, 18 in NC"
(set 16 days ago)
Location: Greenville, NC
2,309 posts, read 6,105,617 times
Reputation: 1430
In the Tar River we have a beautiful resource. Why has no one ever taken advantage of this resource? One attraction that comes to mind is Duck Boat tours. If you're not familiar with Duck Boats, they are vehicles that carry about 20 or 30 passengers, depending on size. They take riders on a tour of the city that they're operating from and then take to the water for a scenic tour of the river. The Tar River has a ton of wildlife living on the water and banks. I've even seen the occasional Osprey (Sea Hawk) gliding around looking for fish for dinner. I'm sure there must be some old wharves along the river, where riverboats used to pick up tobacco. With good tour guides, I think that a Duck Boat business would do well and would actually give tourists an organized tour of the city and river. The city has some historical sites to see but you have to know where to look. What do you guys think about this idea?
In the Tar River we have a beautiful resource. Why has no one ever taken advantage of this resource? One attraction that comes to mind is Duck Boat tours. If you're not familiar with Duck Boats, they are vehicles that carry about 20 or 30 passengers, depending on size. They take riders on a tour of the city that they're operating from and then take to the water for a scenic tour of the river. The Tar River has a ton of wildlife living on the water and banks. I've even seen the occasional Osprey (Sea Hawk) gliding around looking for fish for dinner. I'm sure there must be some old wharves along the river, where riverboats used to pick up tobacco. With good tour guides, I think that a Duck Boat business would do well and would actually give tourists an organized tour of the city and river. The city has some historical sites to see but you have to know where to look. What do you guys think about this idea?
Richard, it's a good idea. Our waterways are a resource that not many people take advantage of. Our proximity to Washington is a bonus as well. I think it would be a great idea to have a cruise option from the Town Commons down to Washington. Washington does allow public boats to dock in certain places on their waterfront and enjoy restaurants and shops. I don't see why cruises couldn't be set up between the two cities. I guess it just takes money.
But there are a couple of options. Riverside recreation and Knee Deep Adventures both offer kayak tours of the Tar River.
I believe in a future phase in Wildwood park will offer a boat ramp that connects to the Tar River. The city could offer river cruises via third-parties, similar to how they partner with Riverside Recreation.
Relax & Release River cruises is a small operation, but he does something very similar to what you suggest with a pontoon boat. I think he just started in 2022, so he could grow this spring and summer.
Richard, it's a good idea. Our waterways are a resource that not many people take advantage of. Our proximity to Washington is a bonus as well. I think it would be a great idea to have a cruise option from the Town Commons down to Washington. Washington does allow public boats to dock in certain places on their waterfront and enjoy restaurants and shops. I don't see why cruises couldn't be set up between the two cities. I guess it just takes money.
But there are a couple of options. Riverside recreation and Knee Deep Adventures both offer kayak tours of the Tar River.
I believe in a future phase in Wildwood park will offer a boat ramp that connects to the Tar River. The city could offer river cruises via third-parties, similar to how they partner with Riverside Recreation.
Relax & Release River cruises is a small operation, but he does something very similar to what you suggest with a pontoon boat. I think he just started in 2022, so he could grow this spring and summer.
You bring up Washington...and I think that's the direction I go. Greenville needs to connect itself to Washington more to take full advantage of that waterway. Trails and using the waterway itself. The Pamlico is the big resource there, not the Tar. Pitt County could definitely help with that as well.
Good luck getting everyone together for the regions best interests.
Honestly, I dont understand why the area indicated on the map wasnt extended at least to the Town Common.
Greenville is still struggling with the past "you have to control this" mentality and "claiming" to be progressive at the same time. They need to look to Wilmington's different districts for guidance here. Wilmington somehow has a soda pop district, Castle St district, South Front district, North 4th district and Cargo district all within its urban footprint to encourage investment. Greenville is NOT progressive. It is taking steps to be now, but there are too many folks from a bygone era still trying to control things.
The latest was the claims that the Hilton Garden Inn did not support this new more liberal ordinance.
I noticed that too, why not go all the way to the town common.... nonsense!
I have worked downtown for over 20 years and seen the ebbs and flows of crime there. The 500 foot rule made a huge difference - as did the departure of PD Chief William Anderson around the same time. I don't want to see it repealed or its enforcement weakened because I know what it was like before.
College dive bars are cheap and easy to operate so that's what tends to open if left unrestricted.
The city's mishandling of the parking overhaul has done a bit of damage to the downtown area's business atmosphere that will take some time to fix.
Quote:
Originally Posted by FrancisDrake
I noticed that too, why not go all the way to the town common.... nonsense!
Because past 3rd Street there is nothing but government buildings and court-related businesses.
Discussed here prior, but sharing a new article from the Daily Reflector on the Greenville-Washington Greenway study. I love this and hope to see it realized eventually. I still can't get over the cost of 1 million per mile for a greenway...... https://www.thewashingtondailynews.c...hvNh1YWJTf2u9o
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