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Mystic, allow me to show you the outright denial of the scripture by the UR!
Christ is the Saviour of all men by virtue of Him dying for the sins of all men, the whole world.
1 John 2:2
"And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world."
So far I see that Jesus saved the WHOLE WORLD. No matter what else you try to misinterpret, it would have to CONTRADICT John, NOT the UR.
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We see in scripture that man must be born again, this is the condition of man being saved from his sins and hell.
Acts 4:12
"Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved."
Being born again is the goal of this physical life, Charlie. It is why we exist. It has nothing to do with salvation from sins or hell. Our salvation through Jesus is what connects us ALL to God when we are born again. We have nothing to do with it.
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We plainly see in scripture that some will not be saved, they blaspheme God in rejection.
Rev. 16:10-11
"And the fifth angel poured out his vial upon the seat of the beast; and his kingdom was full of darkness; and they gnawed their tongues for pain,
And blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, and repented not of their deeds."
Your big mistake is thinking that you understand ANYTHING in Revelation, Charlie. We can not see anything PLAINLY in Revelation, so your interpretation is moot. I have no idea what the hell that verse is talking about.
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Being that some will refuse Christ, there must be a second chance at salvation for these people.
Show me where that's at in scripture, Mystic? Show me the second chance that must take place for the UR to be right!
The UR is living in a dream world of emotion that is not based on scripture! They are lying and can't prove anything they say!
We do not need any second chances since Jesus did what was necessary for the WHOLE WORLD, Charlie. You are saying John is lying, NOT the UR. We DO need to sanctify our works by doing them under the guidance of the Holy Spirit or repenting when we don't. Since we are flawed human beings we DO fail and we will be born again with those unrepented failures. Perhaps that is the weeping and gnashing of teeth or blaspheming your Revelation verse is referring to.
Our unrepented works are the dross that will need to be refined out in the lake of fire and it will take different amounts of time for different people, Charlie. It depends entirely on how much unrepented dross they have accumulated during their life but it definitely will NOT be eternal. It will be age-during.
So far I see that Jesus saved the WHOLE WORLD. No matter what else you try to misinterpret, it would have to CONTRADICT John, NOT the UR. Being born again is the goal of this physical life, Charlie. It is why we exist. It has nothing to do with salvation from sins or hell. Our salvation through Jesus is what connects us ALL to God when we are born again. We have nothing to do with it. Your big mistake is thinking that you understand ANYTHING in Revelation, Charlie. We can not see anything PLAINLY in Revelation, so your interpretation is moot. I have no idea what the hell that verse is talking about. We do not need any second chances since Jesus did what was necessary for the WHOLE WORLD, Charlie. You are saying John is lying, NOT the UR. We DO need to sanctify our works by doing them under the guidance of the Holy Spirit or repenting when we don't. Since we are flawed human beings we DO fail and we will be born again with those unrepented failures. Perhaps that is the weeping and gnashing of teeth or blaspheming your Revelation verse is referring to.
Our unrepented works are the dross that will need to be refined out in the lake of fire and it will take different amounts of time for different people, Charlie. It depends entirely on how much unrepented dross they have accumulated during their life but it definitely will NOT be eternal. It will be age-during.
Like I said, living in a dream world of candy and ice-cream. Can't see the forest for the trees.
Good luck on explaining your foundation of belief from scripture, when you see Him, better have a good excuse for telling man it all works out in the end!
Like I said, living in a dream world of candy and ice-cream. Can't see the forest for the trees.
Good luck on explaining your foundation of belief from scripture, when you see Him, better have a good excuse for telling man it all out in the end!
It is not a dream world, Charlie. I trust Jesus. You don't. You think He failed to save the WHOLE WORLD. I don't. I suggest you prepare to explain why you did NOT trust that He saved the WHOLE WORLD, Charlie. Your mistake is thinking that we are judged instead of our works. Our works are judged in the lake of fire, but we are "saved as by fire" thanks to Jesus.
It is not a dream world, Charlie. I trust Jesus. You don't. You think He failed to save the WHOLE WORLD. I don't. I suggest you prepare to explain why you did NOT trust that He saved the WHOLE WORLD, Charlie. Your mistake is thinking that we are judged instead of our works. Our works are judged in the lake of fire, but we are "saved as by fire" thanks to Jesus.
Again denying plain scriptures, several of them, saying man will go to hell if he rejects Christ, and no where is it found he gets out.
You are preaching he does get out and all will be ok! Again, lying, it's not found, it's only a dream made up of weaklings who can't face the truth of scripture.
Judgement is going to be a hard thing, no mercy for what we can plainly read in scripture, no excuse!
Again denying plain scriptures, several of them, saying man will go to hell if he rejects Christ, and no where is it found he gets out.
You are preaching he does get out and all will be ok! Again, lying, it's not found, it's only a dream made up of weaklings who can't face the truth of scripture.
Judgement is going to be a hard thing, no mercy for what we can plainly read in scripture, no excuse!
This is what you deny, and will have to face with no foundation in scripture whatsoever.
2 Cor. 5:10-11
"For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.
Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences."
You have no fear that what you are doing is wrong! There are those of us who "persuade" men to think what they are doing.
I "persuade" you to prove me wrong in warning you of what is coming. I'm not trying to condemn you, I'm trying to show you the error you are making, a very serious error.
Mystic, allow me to show you the out right denial of the scripture by the UR!
Christ is the Saviour of all men by virtue of Him dying for the sins of all men, the whole world.
1 John 2:2
"And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world."
We see in scripture that man must be born again, this is the condition of man being saved from his sins and hell.
Acts 4:12
"Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved."
We plainly see in scripture that some will not be saved, they blaspheme God in rejection.
Rev. 16:10-11
"And the fifth angel poured out his vial upon the seat of the beast; and his kingdom was full of darkness; and they gnawed their tongues for pain,
And blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, and repented not of their deeds."
Being that some will refuse Christ, there must be a second chance at salvation for these people.
Show me where that's at in scripture, Mystic? Show me the second chance that must take place for the UR to be right!
The UR is living in a dream world of emotion that is not based on scripture! They are lying and can't prove anything they say!
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD
So far I see that Jesus saved the WHOLE WORLD. No matter what else you try to misinterpret, it would have to CONTRADICT John, NOT the UR. Being born again is the goal of this physical life, Charlie. It is why we exist. It has nothing to do with salvation from sins or hell. Our salvation through Jesus is what connects us ALL to God when we are born again. We have nothing to do with it. Your big mistake is thinking that you understand ANYTHING in Revelation, Charlie. We can not see anything PLAINLY in Revelation, so your interpretation is moot. I have no idea what the hell that verse is talking about. We do not need any second chances since Jesus did what was necessary for the WHOLE WORLD, Charlie. You are saying John is lying, NOT the UR. We DO need to sanctify our works by doing them under the guidance of the Holy Spirit or repenting when we don't. Since we are flawed human beings we DO fail and we will be born again with those unrepented failures. Perhaps that is the weeping and gnashing of teeth or blaspheming your Revelation verse is referring to.
Our unrepented works are the dross that will need to be refined out in the lake of fire and it will take different amounts of time for different people, Charlie. It depends entirely on how much unrepented dross they have accumulated during their life but it definitely will NOT be eternal. It will be age-during.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD
It is not a dream world, Charlie. I trust Jesus. You don't. You think He failed to save the WHOLE WORLD. I don't. I suggest you prepare to explain why you did NOT trust that He saved the WHOLE WORLD, Charlie.Your mistake is thinking that we are judged instead of our works. Our works are judged in the lake of fire, but we are "saved as by fire" thanks to Jesus.
Yes mystic, the words and works are judged - I think there is a need to separate out what pertains to the individual and what pertains to the religious/theological/philosophical/national
Revelation, and all religious documents, texts, are to be read by and understood by individuals, but the concepts are to be seen/perceived in relation to the rest of “Scripture” and when we look at John’s writings we see he spans from Genesis to Revelation
Systems are build by the gathering together of individuals and are created by us (humanity) this had a start with the ability to be able to record things for others, so that those at different times and regions are able to use, interpret, translate, divide, sort, etc
This is the Creation that the Scriptures refer to, not the physical creation which is used in symbolic form - we are to use our intellect to understand the symbolism in the higher context/meaning in unity with each other and understand and strive for this
Mat 6:5**And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.
Mat 6:6**But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.
Mat 6:7**But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.
Mat 6:8**Be not ye therefore like unto them: for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him.
Mat 6:9**After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.
Mat 6:10**Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.
Mat 6:11**Give us this day our daily bread.
Mat 6:12**And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.
Mat 6:13**And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.
You and Charlie are at the opposite ends of the religious spectrum so to speak
Eph 3:14**For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ,
Eph 3:15**Of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named,
Eph 3:16**That he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man;
Eph 3:17**That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love,
Eph 3:18**May be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height;
Eph 3:19**And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.
Eph 3:20**Now unto him that is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that worketh in us,
Eph 3:21**Unto him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. Amen.
It is not a dream world, Charlie. I trust Jesus. You don't. You think He failed to save the WHOLE WORLD. I don't. I suggest you prepare to explain why you did NOT trust that He saved the WHOLE WORLD, Charlie. Your mistake is thinking that we are judged instead of our works. Our works are judged in the lake of fire, but we are "saved as by fire" thanks to Jesus.
Mystic my friend: Fire as you know is who God is in essence. I have absolute confidence that His workings will consummate His intention in Christ Jesus in complete accord with His grand intention to restore the radical all back to Himself.
The Lake of Fire & Deity has two powerful ingredients of grandeur, theion & theioo, both rooted in their Source, Theos. Theos "hurts" all that has managed to escape His vast dealings of change and transformation!
It is not a dream world, Charlie. I trust Jesus. You don't. You think He failed to save the WHOLE WORLD. I don't. I suggest you prepare to explain why you did NOT trust that He saved the WHOLE WORLD, Charlie.Your mistake is thinking that we are judged instead of our works. Our works are judged in the lake of fire, but we are "saved as by fire" thanks to Jesus.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie24
Again denying plain scriptures, several of them, saying man will go to hell if he rejects Christ, and no where is it found he gets out.
You are preaching he does get out and all will be ok! Again, lying, it's not found, it's only a dream made up of weaklings who can't face the truth of scripture.
Judgement is going to be a hard thing, no mercy for what we can plainly read in scripture, no excuse!
I deny no scripture that agrees with Jesus, Charlie. I interpret scripture more intelligently and knowledgeably than our primitive ancestors or their successors. Your mistake is thinking WE are judged but it is our works that are judged and we are "saved as by fire," Charlie.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie24
This is what you deny, and will have to face with no foundation in scripture whatsoever.
2 Cor. 5:10-11
"For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.
Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences."
You have no fear that what you are doing is wrong! There are those of us who "persuade" men to think what they are doing.
I "persuade" you to prove me wrong in warning you of what is coming. I'm not trying to condemn you, I'm trying to show you the error you are making, a very serious error.
That PLAINLY states that what we DO or have DONE is judged "to make manifest in our consciences" the error of our ways, Charlie. We will reap the consequences of them in the lake of fire where the dross is refined out for an age-during time equivalent to what we sowed. Thanks to Jesus whatever we have done that is good or we have repented of escapes as do WE who are "saved as by fire."
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Amen, Rosey!
Your mistake is thinking that we are judged instead of our works. Our works are judged in the lake of fire, but we are "saved as by fire" thanks to Jesus.