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What you call judgment, I call consequences of our own failures to develop spiritually, Charlie. I don't deny that the consequences exist, but they are NOT judgments imposed on us by God. Our ancestors considered every consequence to be a judgment imposed on them by God, so it is natural they would use the word judgment. But in fact, as our loving Father, God is doing and has been doing the exact opposite. He has provided instructions and warnings to help us avoid those consequences. Jesus is His most significant and important help by eliminating the permanent separation between humans and God caused by our failure to develop perfect agape love. The rest is up to us. He certainly has NOT and would NOT impose any eternal consequence on us for ANY reason, Charlie!
Sorry, Mystic, but the truth is the truth, I can't let you by with it no matter how much I like you!
Let's go to the world's most famous Bible verse.
John 3:16
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."
What does it mean to perish? Is not "perish" set a contrast to "everlasting life."
You are deceived, Mystic and I can't get through to you!
Even those who are dumb to the scripture can understand this verse.
But you are so caught up in a lie you can't see it.
Even with no scripture back-up whatsoever, you believe the LIE!
Can't you see what you are doing in denying the Words of our Lord Himself?
What punishment do you think is just for calling Christ a liar?
That is what you are doing Mystic, but you will argue!
There are over 220 that speak to that of all being reconciled, seek and you shall find them.
There is no such thing as the Christian hell, other than the grave. What you are following is syncretistic; a religion based on Greek and Egyptian beliefs, and predicated on cultural mythologies or that of a false underworld. But I do not expect that you are capable of using reasoning or being rational. Although, you surely can believe "the lie that you won't die."
"God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved."
What you call judgment, I call consequences of our own failures to develop spiritually, Charlie. I don't deny that the consequences exist, but they are NOT judgments imposed on us by God. Our ancestors considered every consequence to be a judgment imposed on them by God, so it is natural they would use the word judgment. But in fact, as our loving Father, God is doing and has been doing the exact opposite. He has provided instructions and warnings to help us avoid those consequences. Jesus is His most significant and important help by eliminating the permanent separation between humans and God caused by our failure to develop perfect agape love. The rest is up to us. He certainly has NOT and would NOT impose any eternal consequence on us for ANY reason, Charlie!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie24
Sorry, Mystic, but the truth is the truth, I can't let you by with it no matter how much I like you!
Let's go to the world's most famous Bible verse.
John 3:16
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."
What does it mean to perish? Is not "perish" set a contrast to "everlasting life."
I think I know what the problem is, Charlie. You think you are just either good or bad and not a mixture. We are NOT all one thing. Based on how we have lived our lives, we have parts of our Spirit that are bad, parts that are good. and parts that are neither good nor bad. The only parts that we can lose (perish) are the bad ones during the refinement of the dross. (BTW, just so you know, one of the translations of the word ἀπόλλυμι (apollymi) is to be lost.)
Quote:
You are deceived, Mystic and I can't get through to you!
Even those who are dumb to the scripture can understand this verse.
But you are so caught up in a lie you can't see it.
Even with no scripture back-up whatsoever, you believe the LIE!
Can't you see what you are doing in denying the Words of our Lord Himself?
What punishment do you think is just for calling Christ a liar?
That is what you are doing Mystic, but you will argue!
Come on, Charlie, the one I am NOT calling a liar is Jesus. The various scribes may or may not have been lying, but they were definitely wrong about many things ACCORDING TO JESUS!
I think I know what the problem is, Charlie. You think you are just either good or bad and not a mixture. We are NOT all one thing. Based on how we have lived our lives, we have parts of our Spirit that are bad, parts that are good. and parts that are neither good nor bad. The only parts that we can lose (perish) are the bad ones during the refinement of the dross. (BTW, just so you know, one of the translations of the word ἀπόλλυμι (apollymi) is to be lost.) Come on, Charlie, the one I am NOT calling a liar is Jesus. The various scribes may or may not have been lying, but they were definitely wrong about many things ACCORDING TO JESUS!
Well, what were they wrong about? You may have a legitimate claim, so let's see what it is.
Well, what were they wrong about? You may have a legitimate claim, so let's see what it is.
Ah, Charlie, they have been wrong about the very things you and I have been arguing about!! They have the entire context of who God is and what God wants from us completely wrong. That makes most of their inferences and interpretations of the inspirations received at a minimum questionable. I could begin with Genesis and outline their wrong turns and mistakes but that would take way too much time and we would never reach the New Testament mistakes. Bottom line: The God you have been told you are following is not the God revealed and demonstrated unambiguously by Jesus, Charlie, period!
Ah, Charlie, they have been wrong about the very things you and I have been arguing about!! They have the entire context of who God is and what God wants from us completely wrong. That makes most of their inferences and interpretations of the inspirations received at a minimum questionable. I could begin with Genesis and outline their wrong turns and mistakes but that would take way too much time and we would never reach the New Testament mistakes. Bottom line: The God you have been told you are following is not the God revealed and demonstrated unambiguously by Jesus, Charlie, period!
That's what I thought, all talk and no scripture!!!
That's what I thought, all talk and no scripture!!!
You are just not even trying, Charlie. How on earth can you believe Jesus could FORGIVE His brutal unrepentant torturers and murderers and then be so unbelievably UNFORGIVING that He would punish anyone else for eternity for ANY reason???? I confess I have no idea how any mind can reconcile that contradiction.
You are just not even trying, Charlie. How on earth can you believe Jesus could FORGIVE His brutal unrepentant torturers and murderers and then be so unbelievably UNFORGIVING that He would punish anyone else for eternity for ANY reason???? I confess I have no idea how any mind can reconcile that contradiction.
Because the Son of God was beaten half to death and nailed to a tree when He had done nothing wrong but tell the truth, to pay our sin debt.
Life for life, remember that from the Old Testament? God in His love and mercy will give you life and all that He has, if you accept His Son's atonement.
But if you don't, life for life, He will give you spiritual death, separation from Him for eternity.
Now that's what Jesus preached, and that's the way it is. If you go to hell it will your own fault, not His.
He has made it clear He is a Righteous, sinless, and perfect God that will not allow anyone in His Kingdom who has sin hanging over their heads.
Now you can take that with a grain of salt if you want, but I can assure you He is dead serious about it!
Because the Son of God was beaten half to death and nailed to a tree when He had done nothing wrong but tell the truth, to pay our sin debt.
Life for life, remember that from the Old Testament? God in His love and mercy will give you life and all that He has, if you accept His Son's atonement.
But if you don't, life for life, He will give you spiritual death, separation from Him for eternity.
Now that's what Jesus preached, and that's the way it is. If you go to hell it will your own fault, not His.
He has made it clear He is a Righteous, sinless, and perfect God that will not allow anyone in His Kingdom who has sin hanging over their heads.
Now you can take that with a grain of salt if you want, but I can assure you He is dead serious about it!
The human death penalty is a life for a life, or retribution for the sake of punishment, and you equate this human justice to that of a god with a greater sense of morality? The only thing you have done is put him on equal footing to that of your human thinking, believing you are his representative. Personally, I believe he is much more capable of dealing with the situation, rather than handing out an infinite punishment without end. Restoring all to new life.
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