The Truth About Hell (preach, believe, scripture, sin)
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It is also very puzzling that when a earthly disaster happens and people are killed, they will say,it couldn`t be from God because he is a God of love and he would never do such a thing. Or, if a terrible accident happens and people are killed, they say the same thing..couldn`t be from God, he wouldn`t hurt anyone. But then, it`s perfectly ok for him to send people to be tormented day and night forever and all Eternity...huh?
Or even still... when a disaster happens there ARE those who say it IS From God. "God's judgment" And if it's in a place that is known for being NON-Christian.... So, God wipes out a whole town by let's say.... a Tsunami... because those people aren't "christian". So since they're not christian, they're going to hell. So God just couldn't WAIT to get those people into hell? He had to grease the wheels of death for them?? hmmm... didn't want to wait around to see if maybe any of them might end up becoming a Christian? Man, and they only had what..? 60/70/80 years MAX to figure out God and "decide to CHOOSE" Him? wow. God didn't even want to give them THAT long?
Nope. I guess his worm farm needed fed.
What better way than to cause a natural disaster on a land of non-christians!
God is not the god of confusion.
His mercy endureth forever.
A being who would ALLOW any creature to be ETERNALLY tortured... is not a being worthy of worship.
Period.
What if you are wrong? You see regardless if I am right or wrong I have faith and trust in God to know what He does is just, fair and good based on scripture regardless if I can comprehend it or not because in the grand scheme of things we are not important. Is it logical that the fallen creation can tell the perfect Creator what is right or wrong? since without Him you don't know what right or good IS? and if you claim to know then you are saying, people like me who see God justified in the existence of an eternal hell as being good somehow do not have God in us?
What if you are wrong? You see regardless if I am right or wrong I have faith and trust in God to know what He does is just, fair and good based on scripture regardless if I can comprehend it or not because in the grand scheme of things we are not important. Is it logical that the fallen creation can tell the perfect Creator what is right or wrong? since without Him you don't know what right or good IS? and if you claim to know then you are saying, people like me who see God justified in the existence of an eternal hell as being good somehow do not have God in us?
Fundy, I appreciate and agree with your opinion here; but allow me to critique:
I cannot shake my fist at my Creator, no matter how I may see things - for who am I to take the Judge of all the earth to task? Will He not do right?
But the premise you give is "based on scripture", and I defer - scripture is translated this way and that; but His heart is the source of my existence in Him, and the "translator" of all things spiritual for me.
Going back to God, we see a love which does all things after the counsel of It's own will, and can turn creation to Him in ways that - respectfully - can and has blown our minds. We cannot judge a thing before its time, and to try to put God in a box over a matter that He has spoken on - in different ways depending on which texts we read - well, I will simply glorify Him who CAN do whatever He pleases.
We know what He's said He wants, will He get it? I'm not going to bet against Him.
Fundy, I appreciate and agree with your opinion here; but allow me to critique:
I cannot shake my fist at my Creator, no matter how I may see things - for who am I to take the Judge of all the earth to task? Will He not do right?
But the premise you give is "based on scripture", and I defer - scripture is translated this way and that; but His heart is the source of my existence in Him, and the "translator" of all things spiritual for me.
Going back to God, we see a love which does all things after the counsel of It's own will, and can turn creation to Him in ways that - respectfully - can and has blown our minds. We cannot judge a thing before its time, and to try to put God in a box over a matter that He has spoken on - in different ways depending on which texts we read - well, I will simply glorify Him who CAN do whatever He pleases.
We know what He's said He wants, will He get it? I'm not going to bet against Him.
I can appreciate what your saying but without scripture, if man just follows his heart or based on his interpretation of the "Holy Spirit" then you have chaos. Scripture is important because God will never contradict Himself. Scripture can be perverted or twisted but one can know this if one has scripture to base it on. I can't base it on someone's feelings or experience with the Spirit
I can appreciate what your saying but without scripture, if man just follows his heart or based on his interpretation of the "Holy Spirit" then you have chaos. Scripture is important because God will never contradict Himself. Scripture can be perverted or twisted but one can know this if one has scripture to base it on. I can't base it on someone's feelings or experience with the Spirit
And there is definite contradiction on the surface, if we simply "look without seeing". Andrew Jukes did an excellent job of pointing this out in The Restitution of All Things. After reciting both enormous sides of scripture detailing arguments for both, he put it this way:
Quote:
Now is not this apparent contradiction,--few finding the way of life, and yet in Christ all made alive,--God's elect a little flock, and yet all the kindreds of the earth blessed in Abraham's seed,--mercy upon all, and yet eternal punishment,--the restitution of all things, and yet eternal destruction,--the wrath of God for ever, and yet all things reconciled to Him,--eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels, and yet the destruction through death, not of the works of the devil only, but of him who has the power of death, that is the devil,--the second death and the lake which burneth with fire, and yet no more death or curse, but all things subdued by Christ, and God all in all. What can this contradiction mean? Is there any key, and if so, what is it, to this mystery?
The common answer is, that these opposing words only mean, that some are saved and some are lost for ever; that the saved are the elect of this and other dispensations, who as compared with the world have hitherto been but a little flock; but that, though as yet few have found the strait and narrow way, all nations shall be saved in the Millennium; further that though we read, “There shall be no more death,” yet, since the wrath of God is for ever, there must be eternal death, (words by the way not to be found in all Scripture,) and that this death consists in never ending torments, so endless that after the lapse of the ages on ages the punishment of the wicked shall be no nearer its end than when it first commenced; that therefore the words, “In Christ shall all be made alive,” only mean that all who are here in Christ shall be made alive; that the Lamb of God, though willing to be, is not really the Saviour of the world, but only of those who are not of the world, but chosen out of it; that instead of taking away the sin of the world, He only takes away the sin of those who here believe in Him; that all things therefore shall not be reconciled to God, and that “the restitution of all things,” whatever it may mean, does not mean the reconciliation to God of all men.
This is the approved teaching of Christendom; this is the orthodox solution of the mystery; the simple objection to which is, that in asserting one side of Scripture, it is obliged, not only to ignore and deny the other side, but to represent God in a character absolutely opposed to that in which the gospel exhibits Him. Nor does it meet the difficulty to say, as some have said, that though a large proportion of mankind are lost for ever, the greater part will probably be saved, inasmuch as at least one-half of the race die in infancy, whose sin is perfectly atoned for by Christ's sacrifice. What is this but saying, that, if evil has fair play, it will overmatch all that God can do to meet and remedy it? Is this indeed the glad tidings of great joy? Is this the glorious gospel of the blessed God? Is it not simply a misapprehension of God's purpose, arising out of some mystery connected with the method of our redemption? But “the Scripture cannot be broken” thus. (S. John x. 35.) Not a few therefore have confessed that there is some difficulty here, which as yet they cannot solve or reconcile. Is the mystery beyond our present light? Or is there any, and if so, what is the key to it?
(He cites dispensation through the ages as the key to unlocking the "mystery", btw. Col 1:18, Eph 3:11, Heb 2:14))
And there is definite contradiction on the surface, if we simply "look without seeing". Andrew Jukes did an excellent job of pointing this out in The Restitution of All Things. After reciting both enormous sides of scripture detailing arguments for both, he put it this way:
(He cites dispensation through the ages as the key to unlocking the "mystery", btw. Col 1:18, Eph 3:11, Heb 2:14))
As a universalist Elmer you have an advantage over people like me. One can follow the spirit because there is no real consequence from a universal standpoint if you are wrong. I however am not that lucky as my road is narrow therefore not much room for misinterpreting the essential doctrines therefore I can not follow my heart because I can not trust my heart (Jeremiah 17:9) "The heart is more deceitful than all else And is desperately sick; Who can understand it?
nor what I believe the Spirit is saying to me without studying scripture. (1 John 4) "Testing the Spirits Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world......."
It is logical and safer for me to only act upon God's word which is in scripture; if it is not in scripture then it is not of God. You see the quagmire in trying to preach "following the Spirit" to us? and how detrimental it can be to us?
Last edited by Fundamentalist; 05-20-2009 at 09:01 AM..
As a universalist Elmer you have an advantage over people like me. One can follow the spirit because there is no real consequence from a universal standpoint if you are wrong.
Another example of A FUNDY POST! Does anybody know how many times this question has been addressed! No real consequence?
Even small children can understand something if you tell them a couple of times! They might not agee with it, but at least they know your answer to the question. Fundy, how long did it take you to finish school? Did you repeatedly ask the same questions over and over and over and over again? The teacher would answer it and the next day you would pose the same question again.
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So, God wipes out a whole town by let's say.... a Tsunami... because those people aren't "christian". So since they're not christian, they're going to hell. So God just couldn't WAIT to get those people into hell? He had to grease the wheels of death for them?? hmmm... didn't want to wait around to see if maybe any of them might end up becoming a Christian? Man, and they only had what..? 60/70/80 years MAX to figure out God and "decide to CHOOSE" Him? wow. God didn't even want to give them THAT long? 
