Nailing Down The Truth About Hell (crucified, abominations, punishment, doctrine)
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This was posted today on a friend's Facebook wall. Her husband is a church pastor.
I just don't get the whole wishy washy stuff over hell in the church camp. They own it for the altar calls and disown it for funerals. Some, wont name names, skirt it every chance they get. If you try to pin them down which Ive seen in interviews they fall back on 'God can sort all that out, we are just to love people'....but why not then question whether your God you are selling every Sunday truly is a monster or not? How is, "well he might or might not be a degenerate who wants to fry people forever, but hey, lets just cozy up and love one another and worship him anywho!!!" a good foundation? hmmmmm
I agree with her. That is why I will likely never attend another church. Too pretentious. I have another friend besides this one who also quit going to church because they were in a fundamentalist congregation and she saw Universalism in the bible and could no longer keep going to church - but her husband still goes without her for many years now.
This was posted today on a friend's Facebook wall. Her husband is a church pastor.
I just don't get the whole wishy washy stuff over hell in the church camp. They own it for the altar calls and disown it for funerals. Some, wont name names, skirt it every chance they get. If you try to pin them down which Ive seen in interviews they fall back on 'God can sort all that out, we are just to love people'....but why not then question whether your God you are selling every Sunday truly is a monster or not? How is, "well he might or might not be a degenerate who wants to fry people forever, but hey, lets just cozy up and love one another and worship him anywho!!!" a good foundation? hmmmmm
I agree with her. That is why I will likely never attend another church. Too pretentious. I have another friend besides this one who also quit going to church because they were in a fundamentalist congregation and she saw Universalism in the bible and could no longer keep going to church - but her husband still goes without her for many years now.
The thing of it is this. God is fair, and the punishment always fits the crime. So what's the punishment for the wicked? To perish [be destroy forever]; not to burn/suffer without end. And what is the result of perishing? To never have immortality or to be in the presence of God.
Now, do I believe in Universalism then?NO! There are many verses that prove it is an incorrect teaching. What I believe brought about the teaching is ppl began to see the wicked wouldn't suffer/burn forever and then they took the teaching too far.
Matt. 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul[life]: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul[life] and body in hell.[Gehenna=lake of fire]
Or in other words we are not to fear being killed because another person can kill our body, but cannot take 'life' away from us. Why? Because only God/Christ can give us this 'life' in the first place at the resurrection at the last day.
Last edited by mshipmate; 03-04-2014 at 09:28 PM..
Reason: correct spelling
Isaiah 53:5 But he was pierced for our transgressions; he was crushed for our iniquities;
upon him was the chastisement that brought us peace, and with his wounds we are healed.
Acts 2:23 This man was handed over to you by God’s deliberate plan and foreknowledge; and you, with the help of wicked men, put him to death by nailing him to the cross.
Matthew 20:17-19
"And Jesus said : ...the Son of Man will be delivered over to the chief priests and the teachers of the law. They will condemn him to death and will hand him over to the Gentiles to be mocked and flogged and crucified. On the third day he will be raised to life!”
The thing of it is this. God is fair, and the punishment always fits the crime. So what's the punishment for the wicked? To perish [be destroy forever]; not to burn/suffer without end. And what is the result of perishing? To never have immortality or to be in the presence of God.
Now, do I believe in Universalism then?NO! There are many verses that prove it is an incorrect teaching. What I believe brought about the teaching is ppl began to see the wicked wouldn't suffer/burn forever and then they took the teaching too far.
Matt. 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul[life]: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul[life] and body in hell.[Gehenna=lake of fire]
Or in other words we are not to fear being killed because another person can kill our body, but cannot take 'life' away from us. Why? Because only God/Christ can give us this 'life' in the first place at the resurrection at the last day.
And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name. (Revelation 14:11)
But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death. (Revelation 21:8)
There is no end to their suffering it is eternal (not a long period of time). But without time.
The thing of it is this. God is fair, and the punishment always fits the crime. So what's the punishment for the wicked? To perish [be destroy forever]; not to burn/suffer without end. And what is the result of perishing? To never have immortality or to be in the presence of God.
Now, do I believe in Universalism then?NO! There are many verses that prove it is an incorrect teaching. What I believe brought about the teaching is ppl began to see the wicked wouldn't suffer/burn forever and then they took the teaching too far.
Matt. 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul[life]: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul[life] and body in hell.[Gehenna=lake of fire]
Or in other words we are not to fear being killed because another person can kill our body, but cannot take 'life' away from us. Why? Because only God/Christ can give us this 'life' in the first place at the resurrection at the last day.
You very well might be right about what you believe. But what you believe is not what is taught in the vast majority of churches and the few who do believe in Annihilation of the wicked have other odd doctrines they insist everyone must believe. To me, it is all Babylon. I can accept the possibility of annihilation, especially after watching a lot of episodes of ID - there are some really horrific crimes against humanity going on in the world and I do not know how those people are "redeemed" because I do believe in judgement according to our works. So I guess I'm a "fence-sitting" Universalist, but yet and still have little in common with main-stream orthodox teachings and do not want to have my part with the pharisees, so who am I to say God cannot redeem even the most wicked of persons?
And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name. (Revelation 14:11)
But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death. (Revelation 21:8)
There is no end to their suffering it is eternal (not a long period of time). But without time.
Your last statement is added to what was written. What was written says that the unbelieving and liars will have their part in the lake of fire along with many other types of sinners. Therefore, I think the fundamentalists have much to fear because I am quite convinced they have both believed a lie and worshiped the beast and because of that cannot be saved without having their part in the lake of fire. Of course I don't believe this is a literal fire - it is a spiritual cleansing which will be painful none-the-less. If you believe it is a literal fire - I feel sorry for you.
You very well might be right about what you believe. But what you believe is not what is taught in the vast majority of churches and the few who do believe in Annihilation of the wicked have other odd doctrines they insist everyone must believe. To me, it is all Babylon. I can accept the possibility of annihilation, especially after watching a lot of episodes of ID - there are some really horrific crimes against humanity going on in the world and I do not know how those people are "redeemed" because I do believe in judgement according to our works. So I guess I'm a "fence-sitting" Universalist, but yet and still have little in common with main-stream orthodox teachings and do not want to have my part with the pharisees, so who am I to say God cannot redeem even the most wicked of persons?
If you study the life of Manasseh; who repented; You will find a more hideous figure than Hitler ever dreamed of becoming. Blood was flowing throughout the streets. One of his "victims" Was split in two with a sword while arms were outstretched between two trees. That was Isaiah.
Who can know the heart & mind of God ? That's the reason He wrote this book for us to read and meditate upon and hide in our hearts. It is our only "weapon" that works.
If you study the life of Manasseh; who repented; You will find a more hideous figure than Hitler ever dreamed of becoming. Blood was flowing throughout the streets. One of his "victims" Was split in two with a sword while arms were outstretched between two trees. That was Isaiah.
Who can know the heart & mind of God ? That's the reason He wrote this book for us to read and meditate upon and hide in our hearts. It is our only "weapon" that works.
You seem to have replied to the part I wrote to another and ignored what I wrote to you. Too bad. I'm familiar with all the bloody books and abominations and the abominations done by both religious people and atheists down through the ages. Too familiar. I do not believe this kind of wickedness will extend itself into the eternal realm, thank God!
Your last statement is added to what was written. What was written says that the unbelieving and liars will have their part in the lake of fire along with many other types of sinners. Therefore, I think the fundamentalists have much to fear because I am quite convinced they have both believed a lie and worshiped the beast and because of that cannot be saved without having their part in the lake of fire. Of course I don't believe this is a literal fire - it is a spiritual cleansing which will be painful none-the-less. If you believe it is a literal fire - I feel sorry for you.
Luke chapter 16; The rich man was in torment!!
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