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I'm a lifelong Democrat and moves like this really make me rethink my party. I'm very left on social issues but when my lifestyle becomes affected while those receiving welfare and those receiving gravy pensions, I get a little upset and I'm sure I'm not the only one. In the future I would like to see mote businesspeople run for office, they tend to have a little more grasp on reality than lawyers.
I like this Chris Christie guy in Jersey, I like his whole "you don't like my spending cuts......too bad, you shouldn't have voted in so many idiots in the past" attitude. I understand tax hikes but refusing major spending cuts is ridiculous.
My first job out of college was working for the town, I inspected section 8 apartments. I was making $50,000 and there was 5 other people doing the same job as me along with 3 supervisors making over 100k, just to make sure people on welfare have a good quality of life. If something as small as a leaking faucet was broken, it would be fixed overnight. At the same time my landlord refused to turn on my heat in march (we had snow) and it was mid April when the town actually sent him a letter. Trust me they did, most of the apartments I visited had flat screens, nice furniture, the people who occupied them had nice clothing and brand new vehicles. Everyone at the office was afraid to take any actions, I remember one case of illegals living in an apartment. The office began to investigate, we had lawyers calling us the next day playing the race card. I should go that route, I can retire at 26!
I think you should really ask yourself which issues are more important: social/cultural or fiscal. Keep in mind, that GOP candidates don't typically campaign on Roe v Wade repeal and that many other such issues (same sex marriage, guns, etc) are dealt with at the state/local level.
Your lifestyle has been affected (in a negative way) by liberal fiscal policies for a long time; it's probably just becoming more apparent now as it's so in your face and the tipping point is being reached (or passed). You're in a tough spot, as I certainly wouldn't want to live in NY right now, nor would I want to move to IL. I'd advise against moving to Chicago or elsewhere in IL. People have said in this thread that IL needs EXACTLY the strong leadership that Governor Christie (who strongly endorsed Bill Brady) is providing in NJ. Pat Quinn is just a tax, spend and regulate (D) who is owned by the public sector unions of IL. Things will only get worse under him and they already have. I heard that he signed a bill around New Year's that would raise Real Estate taxes in Chicago by up to 60%.
Remember, a $15 B deficit and underfunded pension balance of $80 B (or whatever it is for IL) doesn't fall from the sky or occur overnight. The pols who promised this stuff knew the numbers didn't add up (anyone would) and did it ANYWAY. Honestly, I would be reluctant to accept a job with such a generous benefit package as I'd know that it wasn't viable for the employer.
Please think VERY carefully before moving to IL. There are many places that are far better. My home state (IN) is one of them.
Says the guy whose state has an 8.98% income tax rate for those making over 63K.
If I lived in IA, I'd be paying 6.8% of my income and I'd have to live in the hellmouth.
Who said podunk back-asswards Iowa was doing anything right? I agree 8% or whatever is horrible. Not to mention we have the highest corporate income taxes and one of the highest commercial property tax rates.
And people wonder why nobody wants to move to Iowa. My point is, you people who have supported Democrats for years and years should take a serious look at their track record, instead of listening to their emotional appeals. It's finally coming home to roost.
Keep on raising the income taxes, sales taxes and proeprty taxes and you too will be just like Iowa
I think you should really ask yourself which issues are more important: social/cultural or fiscal. Keep in mind, that GOP candidates don't typically campaign on Roe v Wade repeal and that many other such issues (same sex marriage, guns, etc) are dealt with at the state/local level.
Your lifestyle has been affected (in a negative way) by liberal fiscal policies for a long time; it's probably just becoming more apparent now as it's so in your face and the tipping point is being reached (or passed). You're in a tough spot, as I certainly wouldn't want to live in NY right now, nor would I want to move to IL. I'd advise against moving to Chicago or elsewhere in IL. People have said in this thread that IL needs EXACTLY the strong leadership that Governor Christie (who strongly endorsed Bill Brady) is providing in NJ. Pat Quinn is just a tax, spend and regulate (D) who is owned by the public sector unions of IL. Things will only get worse under him and they already have. I heard that he signed a bill around New Year's that would raise Real Estate taxes in Chicago by up to 60%.
Remember, a $15 B deficit and underfunded pension balance of $80 B (or whatever it is for IL) doesn't fall from the sky or occur overnight. The pols who promised this stuff knew the numbers didn't add up (anyone would) and did it ANYWAY. Honestly, I would be reluctant to accept a job with such a generous benefit package as I'd know that it wasn't viable for the employer.
Please think VERY carefully before moving to IL. There are many places that are far better. My home state (IN) is one of them.
The thing about NYC is, yes taxes are high, rent is high, everything is high but at the age of 25, I'm pushing 100K a year and all I have is a degree in Communications. My story isn't uncommon, there is a lot of opportunity in NYC as far as money. But I grew up here and I'm willing to take a paycut for a different city. I want to be in a city with good public transit, decent rent, walkable, etc. I weighed out most US cities. I've been to Indiana, I love the state but I'm a city boy, a Large city boy. My fiance also works in Big law, so our options are limited to NYC, DC, Boston, LA or Chicago for transfers within her company. She's pushing 200K and if she were to move to a smaller market, her salary would be cut in half. My fiance grew up in the midwest and Chicago is a middle point for our family's, we love the 4 seasons, lake and people of Chicago. It's a wonderful city with problems I would like to see fixed over time.
I'm hoping this tax increase wakes people up and the next elections turn out different. When things are good and everyone is making money, I'm all for spending on my city and community. When the economy is good, maybe I'll vote for someone who puts urban planning in front of business. But now isn't the time, if I am a Chicago resident when the elections come around, I have no problem jumping across the isle and voting for a real hard a**.
Quote:
Originally Posted by aragx6
What is a gravy pension?
Do you know how much most people have paid into their pensions for dozens of years?
More than 15% of my mom's base teacher salary goes straight into her pension fund. How many of us are putting that much of our gross into our 401K?
Pension reform is almost certainly a necessity, and I have no problem with that (if it's done fairly), but to suggest those who receive pensions are getting some amazingly better deal is inaccurate.
A gravy pension is someone getting 4 separate pensions or someone who doubles their OT their last two years of working to receive a larger pensions. Things are bad, a lot of us have taken pay cuts, 401K cuts, higher taxes, cut educational services, etc I think restructuring the pension system isn't unreasonable. I'm totally for pensions, but we all know unions tend to get greedy. I'm against government jobs unionizing and public servants making more pay than the private sector. My soon to be brother in law is a Yale law grad and decided to work in the Public sector. He makes 15K less than the trash collectors, there is something wrong with that.
This is NOT the only way out, not yet. The residents of this state that have abused this system have made their abuse a "career". Why have we not fixed this. I am a Payroll Admin and I can tell you that there are people that have made more money than I but still receive assistance from every hand out from this state. They continue to have children to receive more. There is something wrong with our ability to detect these individuals. They are draining us. But this state keeps paying them. Today families are hurting that truly are in need. The people who work everyday are now going to not be able to save to pay this tax when due. The state will come after them with interest rates and penalties that they can't pay and turn them over to collections. They will have their wages garnished and their property subject to liens. How can we live with that!
There is really no outrage to be had. The most desirable places have the highest taxes. London, NY metro, LA, SF, Chicago, DC, Boston. It never stops unless you move to the boonie states. And what good is that, you retire out there, have a heart attack and then wait 45 minutes for an ambulance to take you to a hospital 30 miles away? Good luck with that.
It just passed the house and will pass the senate. State income taxes are going up 75% so that public employees' unions can keep their pensions.
Why am I not hearing more outrage from people here in chicago over this? I just moved here from the south and if someone pulled a stunt like this people would go postal. Here people just seem to think it's par for the course.
Why? Not enough people follow international news.
Asleep at the wheel when violent protests erupted in France, along with the successful road blockades in latin america, and, most recently, the Tunisians kissing their recent leaders good-bye. No guts, no glory!
Ain't never gonna happen here, never-ever-ever-ever!
Last edited by tijlover; 01-20-2011 at 11:07 PM..
Reason: edit
I'm under the assumption Chicago and rural Illinois are pretty separate. It's easy for a small manufacturer to pick up and move. As for some of global companies, I think they will stat put. Am I wrong?
Global companies can easily relocate operations to lower cost sites in the US or abroad. Large tax increases make it a lot easier to consolidate operations outside of the state.
I'm against government jobs unionizing and public servants making more pay than the private sector. My soon to be brother in law is a Yale law grad and decided to work in the Public sector. He makes 15K less than the trash collectors, there is something wrong with that.
Why is there something wrong with this? Used to be, and in many cases still, the private sector does better than public. The public sector didn't cry when the private was in it's prime. We (Public) knew when we took these jobs we would never be rich, but not poor either. We traded pay for some job security, though this security is starting to fade. Your logic is totally flawed. Now for your BIL from Yale, big whip. He's the one that decided to pursue an over saturated and played out field. So he'll have to pay his dues for awhile, but if he follows through on it the sky's the limit and he can go private. Besides, it sounds like he got what you would want, he IS making less than the private sector. I see plenty of lawyers driving cars I couldn't afford in 3 life times. If he really is gifted, he'll make 5 times that of the public sector. Now on to the garbage man, why shouldn't he make a respectable wage? Why should your BIL be making more than the garbage man, why is his job so superior? The garbage man/woman is up at 4 am, busting their butt doing a job most would pass on. Rain, snow, no matter the condition they are out there making a difference. Proper sanitation is one of the main things that separates progressive countries from the third world. So because some guy is ready and willing to bust his butt doing a thankless, dirty but very important job, some Yale grad should automatically make more and should be economically superior to the average everyday working man, I don't think so! Sorry you view us "public servants" as a lower caste and that we should have to scrape by and that we should expect meager wages and give up all employee protections. I'm not some Serf in a kingdom begging for table scraps.
For the sake of preventing a pointless argument with people I don't know and throwing a good thread off topic, I'm raising the white flag. We have disagreements, It would be best we didn't discuss them at this time.
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