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Everyone loves to ***** and moan about tax rates, and sometimes very rightly so.
I feel in this case that it isn't entirely justified. Chicago operates on an enormous tax base mostly provided by megacorps. The tax burden hasn't fallen on actual people to any measurable degree. Property taxes alone in the city are so low I feel almost ill when I compare my LA and Chicago property assessments.
Frankly, for what you get you really are paying for it. This, despite very obvious corruption and union-style inefficiency.
There shouldn't be outrage. There should be fear. Fear over how to pay for failed infrastructure; there's no way in hell you're going to get anything upgraded or replaced without vast and significant overhead premiums unrelated to the cost of the project. Fear over what political group will win Chicago, because that will determine the fate of the city for the next century. Fear over disturbing what is by every measure a miraculous balance of power so completely different from that of the rest of the nation. Companies actually want to be downtown. Treasure that. And find some way to upgrade and maintain public transit.
It is clearer to me now because I am farther away, watching the distant shores of Lake Michigan from the coast of the Pacific.
The tax burden hasn't fallen on actual people to any measurable degree.
Frankly, for what you get you really are paying for it.
It is clearer to me now because I am farther away, watching the distant shores of Lake Michigan from the coast of the Pacific.
WRONG. I am an "actual person" and my IL income tax went up by $165 this month.
"For what I get, I am paying for it"...HUH?? That makes no sense whatsoever. The only "services" I need are infrastructure, and police/fire protection. I do not have kids, so *I* myself do not need public schools, but I know others do.
Roads are supposed to be paid for out of fuel taxes. And I do not mind paying a fair market price for police and fire (paid for by sales taxes). And schools are paid for out of property taxes (I think...). These are the same "services" that pretty much ALL municipalities in North America provide. There are no other services I need.
SO...what other "services" am I supposed to expect, or what services am I getting by simply living here, that other municipalities do not provide? I have this liberal friend, I told her that I might move to TX, where the taxes are lower, she replied, "The taxes are lower, but so are the services". WHAT SERVICES IS SHE TALKING ABOUT???? I do not NEED any other 'services' other than the ones I mentioned. All other services, such as bars clubs coffee shops, are private businesses that are funded when I buy things from them.
You do not even live here, you live in CA, which has its own massive problems, and will most likely have third world living standards within 10 years.
SO...what other "services" am I supposed to expect, or what services am I getting by simply living here, that other municipalities do not provide? I have this liberal friend, I told her that I might move to TX, where the taxes are lower, she replied, "The taxes are lower, but so are the services". WHAT SERVICES IS SHE TALKING ABOUT???? I do not NEED any other 'services' other than the ones I mentioned. All other services, such as bars clubs coffee shops, are private businesses that are funded when I buy things from them.
So, you don't use public transportation? You don't use the library? You don't have garbage collection and recycling pickup? You never use the parks or any recreation programs that are funded by the city? You would never have occasion to take a class at a city college? You have never had a pet? Never had to call animal control? You don't use street lights at night? You don't use city water?
Generally, you get what you pay for.
These things are provided in other cities, but the quality and amount of service is much more limited in Houston than it is in Chicago. Btw, in Houston, there is no such thing as zoning, so while taxes are less, you may end up paying homeowners association fees that make up for it depending on where you live. I never lived anywhere with a hoa before I moved here. In Houston, trailer parks may be situated right next to wealthy gated neighborhoods. Commercial businesses may be right next to residential ones (including landfills in your neighborhood - see Shadow Creek Ranch in Pearland for one example).
Public transportation is almost nonexistent in Texas though there are a few cities where it is tolerable. Houston has one light rail line that is a joke and very few buses and what they have is not very reliable. Given that Houston is extremely spread out, this creates much worse traffic for the area.
The library in Houston is extremely underfunded and has a terrible collection and fewer branches. The libraries in the suburbs are tiny and underfunded and run by the counties for the most part. We are attempting to get a library built on the west side of Pearland and the way it works is that the city gets to float a bond and build the building, the county provides the staff, but the Friends of the Library has to raise the money for the initial collection. That means we have to come up with $300,000 before they will consider building us a library.
Park district services are underfunded as well. There are some parks and some recreational programs, but no where near the variety offered in Chicago.
Trash collection is not terrible, but the recycling program is fairly poor. The city *is* attempting to go green, but they have not been too successful.
So, you don't use public transportation? You don't use the library? You don't have garbage collection and recycling pickup? You never use the parks or any recreation programs that are funded by the city? You would never have occasion to take a class at a city college? You have never had a pet? Never had to call animal control? You don't use street lights at night? You don't use city water?
Generally, you get what you pay for.
These things are provided in other cities, but the quality and amount of service is much more limited in Houston than it is in Chicago. Btw, in Houston, there is no such thing as zoning, so while taxes are less, you may end up paying homeowners association fees that make up for it depending on where you live. I never lived anywhere with a hoa before I moved here. In Houston, trailer parks may be situated right next to wealthy gated neighborhoods. Commercial businesses may be right next to residential ones (including landfills in your neighborhood - see Shadow Creek Ranch in Pearland for one example).
Public transportation is almost nonexistent in Texas though there are a few cities where it is tolerable. Houston has one light rail line that is a joke and very few buses and what they have is not very reliable. Given that Houston is extremely spread out, this creates much worse traffic for the area.
The library in Houston is extremely underfunded and has a terrible collection and fewer branches. The libraries in the suburbs are tiny and underfunded and run by the counties for the most part. We are attempting to get a library built on the west side of Pearland and the way it works is that the city gets to float a bond and build the building, the county provides the staff, but the Friends of the Library has to raise the money for the initial collection. That means we have to come up with $300,000 before they will consider building us a library.
Park district services are underfunded as well. There are some parks and some recreational programs, but no where near the variety offered in Chicago.
Trash collection is not terrible, but the recycling program is fairly poor. The city *is* attempting to go green, but they have not been too successful.
I use public transportation, but I pay a fare when I get on.
I do not use the library anymore, I use the internet. Or I just buy the book, to help support the author. But in the past, I have been to libraries in TX that were perfectly adequate. I never understood why we need "public" libraries. Why dont they just operate on a membership basis? Oh, that's right, I forgot, it is because liberals/socialists like to tell everyone how useful they are. But if society needs them so much, why arent they a private business that charges for membership? No, instead, liberals want to make everyone else pay for it.
The garbage collection and pickup in Dallas and Houston IS FAR SUPERIOR to what it is here in Chicago. THERE IS GARBAGE ALL OVER THE NEIGHBORHOOD WHERE I LIVE IN SOCIALIST CHICAGO (WICKER PARK). Dallas is a VERY clean city.
There are plenty of parks in Dallas and Houston, beautiful parks. But those are paid for by the city, not the state.
The city should not be paying for "recreation programs". If people want to have a street fair, they should run it themselves. Oh wait, I forgot, THAT COSTS MONEY...so therefore liberals and socialists like to make everyone else pay for it.
I have had a pet before. What does that have to do with it? And yes, I have had to call pet control, but isnt that part of the police? It should be a division of the police department/public safety. And yes, TX has that too.
I use street lights at night, but that is part of infrastructure (paid for out of fuel taxes). And yes, Texas has those. They are just as good as the ones in Chicago.
I use city water, but they city bills you for it. It is the same in Texas.
Outside of these basic core services, there are no other services that I really need. And all of these core services are pretty much the same no matter where in North America you go.
I like public trans, but if you want to make it profitable, then you need more people using it, so that economies of scale will kick in. The only way to do that, is to increase fuel taxes to the point where people will want to take public trans. I am all for higher fuel taxes to make this happen, but only as long as I know where the money is going. But in places like Chicago, the government either wont show you the "checkbook", or they lie about where the money is going.
Beyond all of this, everything that is great about Chicago, was built by private industry.
Sears Tower - private industry
Hancock - private industry
Bars, clubs, coffee shops - private industry
Beautiful architecture - private industry
If everything was up to the liberals, then everything would be a government program...McDonald's? Government Program. Home Depot? Government program.
Sorry liberals, the public is waking up, and we are on to you.
Coldwine, you are aware that this tax is for all of IL, not just precious little Chicago right? My property taxes are $5700 a year for a small house on a small lot. But I'm ok with it because the town I live it does provide top notch service. But that's because my town is run right, the State isn't. So I paid $5700 in property tax, I believe $7600 in federal tax and $2000 in State. Now next year for the State it'll be $3500, awesome just awesome. I don't need a paycheck I guess. Makes me want to vomit when I see I'm easily paying over $13,500 a year in taxes. But I'm glad to know LINK, WIC and Section 8 aren't being impacted. While we work to make less, those that choose not to work and be bums continue to receive the same.
Here is the biggest problem, IL has proven itself to not know how to manage it's finances. This dilemma has not appeared overnight. Now the are taking even more money from us and not giving us any real explanation on how anything will get fixed. It's line a heroin addict, it starts small, but soon they are stealing Mom's jewelry and pawning it to buy the dope. That's what this State is like. Keep taking more and more money from us, but all it does is go into a bottomless hole.
The attitude of some of these elite liberal Chicagoans does not shock me one bit.
When you have people saying things like "oh a 43k raise on a 100k salary is not big deal, it is a small part of the budget" you know we are in big trouble. These tax and spend liberals are destroying Chicago,Cook County and the State of Illinois.
The individual income tax increase has been disguised by the 2% temporary FICA reduction. Next year is when people will start feeling the pain. Some local firms are actually expanding, though they might be growing faster without the hike. True, Abbott is cutting jobs, but it is not moving them to WI (though that would be convenient for a lot of its employees.)
I use public transportation, but I pay a fare when I get on.
I do not use the library anymore, I use the internet. Or I just buy the book, to help support the author. But in the past, I have been to libraries in TX that were perfectly adequate. I never understood why we need "public" libraries. Why dont they just operate on a membership basis? Oh, that's right, I forgot, it is because liberals/socialists like to tell everyone how useful they are. But if society needs them so much, why arent they a private business that charges for membership? No, instead, liberals want to make everyone else pay for it.
The garbage collection and pickup in Dallas and Houston IS FAR SUPERIOR to what it is here in Chicago. THERE IS GARBAGE ALL OVER THE NEIGHBORHOOD WHERE I LIVE IN SOCIALIST CHICAGO (WICKER PARK). Dallas is a VERY clean city.
There are plenty of parks in Dallas and Houston, beautiful parks. But those are paid for by the city, not the state.
The city should not be paying for "recreation programs". If people want to have a street fair, they should run it themselves. Oh wait, I forgot, THAT COSTS MONEY...so therefore liberals and socialists like to make everyone else pay for it.
I have had a pet before. What does that have to do with it? And yes, I have had to call pet control, but isnt that part of the police? It should be a division of the police department/public safety. And yes, TX has that too.
I use street lights at night, but that is part of infrastructure (paid for out of fuel taxes). And yes, Texas has those. They are just as good as the ones in Chicago.
I use city water, but they city bills you for it. It is the same in Texas.
Outside of these basic core services, there are no other services that I really need. And all of these core services are pretty much the same no matter where in North America you go.
I like public trans, but if you want to make it profitable, then you need more people using it, so that economies of scale will kick in. The only way to do that, is to increase fuel taxes to the point where people will want to take public trans. I am all for higher fuel taxes to make this happen, but only as long as I know where the money is going. But in places like Chicago, the government either wont show you the "checkbook", or they lie about where the money is going.
Beyond all of this, everything that is great about Chicago, was built by private industry.
Sears Tower - private industry
Hancock - private industry
Bars, clubs, coffee shops - private industry
Beautiful architecture - private industry
If everything was up to the liberals, then everything would be a government program...McDonald's? Government Program. Home Depot? Government program.
Sorry liberals, the public is waking up, and we are on to you.
Public transit is not paid for by the fares alone. It would be prohibitive for poor people if it was and rich people generally do not use it.
Public libraries are necessary again for those who cannot afford books especially if we want to encourage literacy among the poor.
Recreation programs through the park districts do have fees, but again without tax support, the fees would be astronomical and the working poor people who are those who need them most would not be able to afford them.
City water is paid for by taxes as well. In Texas, we even have MUDs (metropolitan utility districts) that tax you separately. (Taxes in Texas are NOT necessarily less than in Chicago - it's just that there are many different taxing bodies. Independent School Districts, for example, tax you through your property taxes and cross city lines. Different parts of Pearland are in Pearland ISD, Alvin ISD, Harris County ISD, Fort Bend ISD - so the tax rates are different based on *where* in Pearland you happen to live for the schools).
As far as I know *most* street fairs in both Chicago and Houston are paid for by the organizations who run them. Some of these are non-profits, some are for profit. Some though are run by park districts and by cities. No state money is spent for them, though.
Garbage pickup here is contracted out. Sometimes it is good, sometimes it is bad. Comparing it to after the snowstorm in Chicago is like comparing it Houston after IKE.
Fuel in Texas is often cheaper than the national average, but then Texas is dependent on the oil industry.
When you compare various reasons for living in Chicago or Houston, you have to take not only cost of living into account, but some other factors.
Housing is cheaper - it is also not well built at least in terms of the newer housing. Food is about the same. Taxes are NOT that much less because there are many different taxing bodies that get your money. Clothing will be cheaper because you don't have much in the way of winter wear. Medical care is world class, but it is not inexpensive.
Let's just start with the basics here. What is a fair share of one's income to pay in taxes/support society at large? Is public transportation an essential, or a luxury? Etc.
I think few people think about what a "fair" tax is. They just rant about taxes, period, or they support government programs without considering the cost. There is a middle way to do things, but it does require sacrifices and accepting government can't do everything.
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