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What people forget when they say "just open the schools and let people decide" is that the only way that could happen is if you could talk the teachers into returning to the classroom and I'm not sure that will happen any time soon.
That's why the initial bargaining at the beginning of the month included contingencies to assign staff with underlying health issues, etc. accordingly. Same thing with stuffy rooms with no AC. The language included proper ventilation. It included social distancing, masks, barriers, dealing with prolonged absences for possible quarantines, cleaning/disinfecting, full time medical staff on each campus, temperature checks, and on and on. The plan was comprehensive. The state put that all to bed when they announced their own plan which was basically no plan, just D/L.
Here's language right from the members faq:
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Q. If I am uncomfortable returning to school in-person due to health or other reasons, will I have the option to stay home and do distance learning?
A. The District will be using the Americans with Disabilities Act’s workplace reasonable accommodations process for verifiable disability to determine whether or not the District can accommodate a person’s request to not return to in-person work. Each accommodation request will be based on the specifics of each individual's context and circumstances.
There's ways to make this all work but it takes effort. Unfortunately big school districts aren't good at providing a tenth of the things required on a good day, let alone the additional needs to make a safe environment during a pandemic. We're supposed to reevaluate the situation middle of August. I doubt anything will change, but I hope it does. As for twisting the arms of staff/teachers to return, all the ones I know aren't in love with D/L because it's not a substitute for real school.
Furthermore, there are thousands of people stepping in to fill the child care gap
I know people who are working from home who put their kids with private babysitters. The importance of the schools as childcare alone, disregarding the education side of it, can't be overstated.
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The problem is that we treat education as an afterthought in this country, ranked somewhere below fast food joints. Even Korea, Taiwan, and Japan, with their extreme reactions to try to control the virus, kept schools open or closed them only as a last resort. Europeans opened them as soon as they possibly could. Only in America is education not considered an "essential service."
Agreed. For all the talk of the Feds being unprepared to deal with covid, the state was unprepared to deal with closing schools indefinitely.
I I believe the best compromise is allow homeschooling as an option and use a lottery system for students wanting on campus instruction given the limited number of teachers and social distancing, giving priority for those who have both working parents and need childcare especially low income families or otherwise have no place to go during the day time as well as students who may need individual teacher attention, or those who may not be able to afford home Internet.
Mixed roster, and there's no need for a lottery. When they polled parents in our district, the overwhelming majority wanted some form of in-person with the option to do D/L as a supplement. They're supposed to redo the questionnaire but I think it's a moot point now that the state has had its say. Who knows though. The situation is so fluid it can change in a millisecond.
I love my job and care about the people who depend on my essential function. I didn't sign on to become a martyr. Yet I--and all my coworkers--have worked through this crisis, in contact with far more adults (who are known to be spreaders of COVID-19), for far longer than the typical school day, in an old building with no option to do some portion of our work out in the open air. In fact, we essential workers were told we were "lucky" to be working when the virus was thought to have a 5% fatality rate (instead of a 0.25% rate). Yet teachers are different?
Millions of "essential" workers in much more dangerous workplaces were required to return to work long before we knew that the virus wasn't killing 5% of the people who caught it. Bar and restaurant employees have to serve patrons. Grocery store clerks have to interact with far more people, who are MUCH more likely to spread the virus than elementary school age children, than teachers.
Furthermore, there are thousands of people stepping in to fill the child care gap. Dozens of day cares, YMCA's, dance studios, tutors, and others are creating classrooms and childcare institutions out of thin air. These people are keeping the same hours as teachers, having the same or more exposure to children in closer quarters with much less sanitation support and most are getting paid much less.
I agree with the closure of middle and high schools. Older children can distance-learn more effectively and studies clearly indicate that older children are more infectious than younger children. However, it's ridiculous to say bars, nail and hair salons, etc. are a more essential business, and must be allowed to reopen, while elementary schools are optional.
Fortunately CA allows for elementary school waivers coordinated with local health offices. All CA school districts should be pursuing these waivers as a matter of routine. Elementary schools should be closing when cases are detected or when a community has radically uncontrolled spread, not closing BEFORE they are detected or when the spread is gradually increasing.
We know children can contract COVID-19, but their outcomes are better than when they contract Influenza. We also have studies that show they are unlikely to pass on the virus.
We are treating dogs better than children. We know they can contract COVID-19, but we don't know if they can transmit it, yet we're not closing kennels and dog groomers.
The problem is that we treat education as an afterthought in this country, ranked somewhere below fast food joints. Even Korea, Taiwan, and Japan, with their extreme reactions to try to control the virus, kept schools open or closed them only as a last resort. Europeans opened them as soon as they possibly could. Only in America is education not considered an "essential service."
I don't know what kind of work you do, but I don't know very many people required to work in a small room with 30 sneezing coughing, nose picking little kids. I think when you mention that elementary school kids don't spread the virus you are referring to the South Korea study but it didn't make the claim younger children are 'unlikely to pass on the virus'
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We also found the highest COVID-19 rate (18.6% [95% CI 14.0%–24.0%]) for household contacts of school-aged children and the lowest (5.3% [95% CI 1.3%–13.7%]) for household contacts of children 0–9 years in the middle of school closure. Despite closure of their schools, these children might have interacted with each other, although we do not have data to support that hypothesis. A contact survey in Wuhan and Shanghai, China, showed that school closure and social distancing significantly reduced the rate of COVID-19 among contacts of school-aged children (8). In the case of seasonal influenza epidemics, the highest secondary attack rate occurs among young children (9). Children who attend day care or school also are at high risk for transmitting respiratory viruses to household members (10). The low detection rate for household contacts of preschool-aged children in South Korea might be attributable to social distancing during these periods. Yet, a recent report from Shenzhen, China, showed that the proportion of infected children increased during the outbreak from 2% to 13%, suggesting the importance of school closure (11). Further evidence, including serologic studies, is needed to evaluate the public health benefit of school closure as part of mitigation strategies. https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/10/20-1315_article
I want my grandson to return to a normal classroom schedule as much as anyone else, but I want both he and his teacher to be safe, and since he lives with his dad in our home, I also want to make sure that my immune compromised husband will be safe. We aren't going to get there on a wing and a prayer, we need people to wear masks, practice social distancing and we need at least in California to reduce the cases to the point where contact tracing can be done.
I don't know what kind of work you do, but I don't know very many people required to work in a small room with 30 sneezing coughing, nose picking little kids. I think when you mention that elementary school kids don't spread the virus you are referring to the South Korea study but it didn't make the claim younger children are 'unlikely to pass on the virus'
Schools had already laid plans to cut class sizes to 12 or less, with social distancing, hold outdoor classes when possible, and reduce the number of hours teachers would have to teach.
I work in close quarters with more than a dozen adults for 10 hours a day. We breath recirculated air and NONE of our work can be done outdoors. Furthermore, there are certain "freedom loving" individuals at my workplace who are far worse about following directions and keeping their darn mask on than 99% of kindergartners. I'm not sure if you've been to an elementary school classroom recently, but they are generally not the snotty free-for-alls that you're imagining. Most children naturally follow rules better than adults, and are well-behaved with, at most, 5% of the class needing additional reminders to cover their coughs or maintain social distancing. Most children will wear masks when asked, with occasional slip-ups. Furthermore, most elementary school teachers have very good control systems in place to manage those 24 little kids. Reduce that number to 12 at a time, and those systems likely work even better.
I am referring to too many studies to mention, and the number keep growing.
The most recent:
The CDC's Korean study you cited does note that elementary schoolers are the least likely group to transmit the virus to people they LIVE WITH 24/7 during a period when they were confined to their homes.
The joint study between Sweden and Finland which found that schools remaining open in Sweden (while Finland closed them) did not result in higher transmission rates among children. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-h...-idUSKCN24G2IS
And the AAP recommendations (with supporting studies and citations.)
The body of evidence is becoming undeniable. If you want a science-based response to COVID, you have to read and respond to the science. At this point, closing elementary schools is no longer supported by science. It has become fear-based, or possibly a political football.
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I want my grandson to return to a normal classroom schedule as much as anyone else, but I want both he and his teacher to be safe, and since he lives with his dad in our home, I also want to make sure that my immune compromised husband will be safe. We aren't going to get there on a wing and a prayer, we need people to wear masks, practice social distancing and we need at least in California to reduce the cases to the point where contact tracing can be done.
That is a pipe dream. Based on how the first lockdown went--when people were actually fearful of COVID-19's high death rate--we are clearly never going to get viral activity suppressed to where we can do adequate contact tracing. This is a massive failure of the administration, made all the more embarrassing by how well the Asians and Europeans handled things.
We are not even really trying, at this point, otherwise we'd be 100% locked down even more severely than we were in March, when there were 10X FEWER cases being detected daily in California!
I want to be very clear: Middle Schools, High Schools, Colleges, and Universities need to be distance-learning only. Teens and young adults transmit the virus just as readily as adults, even if their outcomes are better. The science shows that teens and young adults should stay distance-learning. Fortunately, they are more capable of self-motivation and independent solo study (or at least self-care) than elementary schoolers.
For all my writing, I think California is charting the best course here. The governor did allow an exception for public and private ELEMENTARY schools to reopen--in coordination with their local health officers. He did not widely publicize it, because he did not want to turn it into another political football.
That said, the responsibility now falls to local elementary schools to do what is best for their teachers and students. If their local health officer approves, they should apply for the waiver and reopen with safety measures (including closing down if too many cases are detected) in place.
Schools had already laid plans to cut class sizes to 12 or less, with social distancing, hold outdoor classes when possible, and reduce the number of hours teachers would have to teach.
I work in close quarters with more than a dozen adults for 10 hours a day. We breath recirculated air and NONE of our work can be done outdoors. Furthermore, there are certain "freedom loving" individuals at my workplace who are far worse about following directions and keeping their darn mask on than 99% of kindergartners. I'm not sure if you've been to an elementary school classroom recently, but they are generally not the snotty free-for-alls that you're imagining. Most children naturally follow rules better than adults, and are well-behaved with, at most, 5% of the class needing additional reminders to cover their coughs or maintain social distancing. Most children will wear masks when asked, with occasional slip-ups. Furthermore, most elementary school teachers have very good control systems in place to manage those 24 little kids. Reduce that number to 12 at a time, and those systems likely work even better.
I am referring to too many studies to mention, and the number keep growing.
The most recent:
The CDC's Korean study you cited does note that elementary schoolers are the least likely group to transmit the virus to people they LIVE WITH 24/7 during a period when they were confined to their homes.
The joint study between Sweden and Finland which found that schools remaining open in Sweden (while Finland closed them) did not result in higher transmission rates among children. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-h...-idUSKCN24G2IS
And the AAP recommendations (with supporting studies and citations.)
The body of evidence is becoming undeniable. If you want a science-based response to COVID, you have to read and respond to the science. At this point, closing elementary schools is no longer supported by science. It has become fear-based, or possibly a political football.
That is a pipe dream. Based on how the first lockdown went--when people were actually fearful of COVID-19's high death rate--we are clearly never going to get viral activity suppressed to where we can do adequate contact tracing. This is a massive failure of the administration, made all the more embarrassing by how well the Asians and Europeans handled things.
We are not even really trying, at this point, otherwise we'd be 100% locked down even more severely than we were in March, when there were 10X FEWER cases being detected daily in California!
I've been in a classroom many times. I have been a classroom volunteer since my Grandson started Kindergarten. And yeah they have runny noses, cough and sneeze, they all try to cough into their arm, but more often than not if parents don't donate kleenex the kids wipe their nose with their hand, that's just the way it is. The classroom is very small and the 8 kids sit around each of 4 tables. The windows can't be opened, they sealed them shut so that a shooter couldn't get in the room or something and the room is hot and stuffy.
I read the AAP recommendation and their follow up "clarification"
Quote:
"Those policies, the AAP stated, should include the standard protocol of handwashing, disinfecting, the use of outdoor space when possible, and the formation of small student groups, also known as "cohorting." But, it affirmed, it should not go so far as to limit student attendance due to physical-distancing constraints: "Schools should weigh the benefits of strict adherence to a 6-feet spacing rule between students with the potential downside if remote learning is the only alternative.The guidelines do not offer as many recommendations for teacher safety — a major roadblock to reentry, considering a third of teachers are more than 50 years old and thus in a higher-risk category. So, whereas the AAP maintains that masks are not practical for elementary-school-age children, it advises conducting faculty and parent-teacher conferences virtually to increase adult-to-adult physical distance."
For schools that are better suited to resume on campus classes I'm all for it, but I don't think you can legitimately pack these kids in a small classroom and talk yourself into believing that everything will be ok. My guess is that in the current facilities virtually no teachers will agree to return to the school.
I've been in a classroom many times. I have been a classroom volunteer since my Grandson started Kindergarten. And yeah they have runny noses, cough and sneeze, they all try to cough into their arm, but more often than not if parents don't donate kleenex the kids wipe their nose with their hand, that's just the way it is. The classroom is very small and the 8 kids sit around each of 4 tables. The windows can't be opened, they sealed them shut so that a shooter couldn't get in the room or something and the room is hot and stuffy.
I read the AAP recommendation and their follow up "clarification"
For schools that are better suited to resume on campus classes I'm all for it, but I don't think you can legitimately pack these kids in a small classroom and talk yourself into believing that everything will be ok. My guess is that in the current facilities virtually no teachers will agree to return to the school.
Same situation here, though our kindergarten classroom wasn't small. We had 4 tables of 8 as well, but also a large open area for circle/story time etc. There was a sink and additional craft (square) table in the back, plus the teacher's desk, plus cubby wall, another half-circle table, etc. Cutting the class from 24 to 12, and cutting the total hours of instruction delivered in person by the teacher by 30% would make the room seem pretty empty and certainly curtail exposure.
Just guesswork here, but I'd say--based on previous behavior--10 out of 12 of the kids I worked with last year would keep their masks on and be reasonably hygienic, while one-to-two would need some pretty regular reminding. I'm sure mileage may vary, and I've only been in one kindergarten classroom, and never a 1st grade, though I think compliance would get better the older the kids.
I'd continue to volunteer in my children's 1st grade classroom without worry. But I agree that elderly persons, and those with other risk factors should be given special consideration and shouldn't be out and about in ANY workplace, restaurant, shop, or grocery, more than absolutely necessary, given the current state of the pandemic.
As you said; no one can compel a teacher to work any more than we can compel grocery store clerks or me. If teachers feel strongly that they are unfairly at risk, a strike is just as effective at keeping them out of the classroom as a mandate.
And again, to address the social impact; it's not as though the majority of working parents are just staying home and keeping their children isolated. Every dance studio, YMCA, unlicensed at-home day-care, etc. is stepping in to fill the void left by school closures and offering 6+ straight hours of daily child care and activities in whatever space they have. Its a good bet that far fewer of them are following social distancing, sanitation, and safety guidelines as well as schools could.
Who doesn't? But that's not really the issue right now.
Nita, we're in a state with one of the highest number of COVID cases and hospitalizations in the country, unlike Arkansas. And it doesn't look as if things are slowing down. In addition, school staff is also at risk.
Back-to-school is looking a little different for many teachers nationwide this year, as they grapple with returning to their classrooms amid a pandemic.
Added to their list of concerns: Death.
"How horrible is it that one of the things on the list to do is to have a plan for students and teachers dying?" Denise Bradford, a teacher in Orange County, California's Saddleback Valley Unified School District, told CNN.
I know only 2 well what you are saying and actually for the size of our state and the population we are being hit a bit hard, but there is still are so many reasons for re-opening: it appears that children are very unlikely to spread the disease to adults or other children,if the are not in school they will be other places around both kids and adults and this won't help either. You can not isolate everyone. If the schools open, with recommended caution and there are alternatives for those who prefer their kids not go to traditional school I just am not convinced there is any advantage to keep schools closed.
Some of the websites and articles you are using as examples are a bit slanted. BTW, we do get latimes on line as well as others we enjoy reading.
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