Coronavirus (pizza, cherry, what does)

[wac_432]

Originally Posted by CaliRestoration

The data doesn't support lockdowns at all. They don't work. There literally isn't any data backed case you can make that shows the efficacy of lockdowns.

Even if they did, it would be for naught when ANTIFA protests and BLM is allowed to run free regardless of a lockdown policy or not.

You need to add "In most of the USA" to your statements. Lockdowns were effective in most of Europe and China, when executed in coordination with socialized medicine, a cooperative population, and strong central government. If an effective vaccine can be created, then those lockdowns have clearly saved hundreds of thousands of European and Chinese lives.

Saying "Lockdowns don't work" is like saying "Travel bans don't work." They (travel bans) actually do, as New Zealand, Japan, Korea, China, and Taiwan have shown. You just have to ban ALL travelers as soon as possible and quarantine returning citizens for 14 days. It also helps to be an island. If you just ban a single country (or group of them) for political purposes, like pandering to your racist base, THEN they're completely ineffective.

Lockdowns are ineffective in countries with weak leadership and poor social systems. They have been proven NOT to work in countries like Brazil, Iran, Russia, India, and the United States.

You could argue that NY's lockdown was successful. However, I think they have simply reached the point on the disease curve where mask-wearing and social distancing are enough to reduce viral spread to background levels. All the dense and poor boroughs are >50% seropositive.

SF's lockdown does seem to be effective, but since they can't effectively ban people from coming into the city from the rest of the country, they can never lift it until the disease is eradicated.

There are numerous rural regions where less stringent restrictions on businesses and movement have kept the virus from rapidly spreading.

So there are regions of the United States with strong leadership, good social services, (or simply a lack of people) where lockdowns worked. Just not in most of the country.

Most of us are in a grey zombie state where partial restrictions are holding down viral spread and number of deaths, while we wait on hopes of a vaccine. Lockdown to "track and trace" has been shown to be impossible, while releasing restrictions will result in a wave of infections and deaths. With present "restrictions" in place, it seems we'll top out at about 30-40% infected with an Rt of about 1.25. Florida, Texas, and California are probably within 30 days (or fewer) of maximum new infections barring some dramatic social change like middle/high school reopenings, indoor dining, widespread social unrest (demonstrations) or complete release of restrictions.

[CaliRestoration]

Originally Posted by looker009

China,France, Italy Spain, Denmark, Austria, Poland, the Czech Republic

China - Higher death rate than Florida, Texas, or Switzerland which engaged in partial lockdowns.

France - Higher death rate than Florida, Texas, or Switzerland which engaged in partial lockdowns.

Italy - Higher death rate than Florida, Texas, or Switzerland which engaged in partial lockdowns.

Spain - Higher death rate than Florida, Texas, or Switzerland which engaged in partial lockdowns.

Denmark - Higher death rate than Florida, Texas, or Switzerland which engaged in partial lockdowns.

Poland - Higher death rate than Florida, Texas, or Switzerland which engaged in partial lockdowns.

Who's next?

[CaliRestoration]

Originally Posted by wac_432

You need to add "In most of the USA" to your statements. Lockdowns were effective in most of Europe and China, when executed in coordination with socialized medicine, a cooperative population, and strong central government. .

No they weren't.

China and much of Europe (Belgium, Italy, UK, Spain) had higher deaths per million than partial lockdown / no lockdown countries, and even Sweden which tried "herd immunity" still had a lower death rate.

I didn't even read the rest of your post because the first part was so damn wrong.

There are literally no statistics showing that lockdowns had any effect on stemming the spread of the virus or reducing the death rate of Covid-19. Zero.

Originally Posted by wac_432

You could argue that NY's lockdown was successful.

Geezus. This has to be the worst take I've read in this entire thread. You could argue that the state with the highest Covid-19 death rate in the entire country was "successful"? OOooookay.

[tikkasf]

https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cp..._3x_640-nc.png


This is from last April and the chart is not a world wide one. The virus is transmitted from person to person. I have seen no reports of someone likely being infected by a spider or bug crawling around in their home. Stay at home, shelter in place does work. ......for the simple reason the more you are isolated from others who may be infected but not yet showing symptoms.

[tikkasf]

Originally Posted by Tulemutt

Hahahahaha ... just like Trump, your hero. You fail to answer the question, then declare a knockout ... while you are lying looking up at the lights. Man o’ man.

Perhaps the question that needs to be asked from this poster, if a lock down does not work, then tell us what does.....?

[Tulemutt]

Originally Posted by CaliRestoration

China - Higher death rate than Florida, Texas, or Switzerland which engaged in no lockdowns or partial lockdowns.

France - Higher death rate than Florida, Texas, or Switzerland which engaged in no lockdowns or partial lockdowns.

Italy - Higher death rate than Florida, Texas, or Switzerland which engaged in no lockdowns or partial lockdowns.

Spain - Higher death rate than Florida, Texas, or Switzerland which engaged in no lockdowns or partial lockdowns.

Denmark - Higher death rate than Florida, Texas, or Switzerland which engaged in no lockdowns or partial lockdowns.

Poland - Higher death rate than Florida, Texas, or Switzerland which engaged in no lockdowns or partial lockdowns.

Who's next?

Originally Posted by CaliRestoration

No they weren't.

China and much of Europe (Belgium, Italy, UK, Spain) had higher deaths per million than partial lockdown / no lockdown countries, and even Sweden which tried "herd immunity" still had a lower death rate.

I didn't even read the rest of your post because the first part was so damn wrong.

There are literally no statistics showing that lockdowns had any effect on stemming the spread of the virus or reducing the death rate to Covid-19. Zero.



Geezus.

Too funny again. You are comparing the rates of nations hit early in the international outbreak, before social distancing became a recommendation in the US - with the states that came later to the infection cycle and where distancing was instituted.

Every epidemiologist in the world disagrees with your assertions that lockdowns in those countries had no effect on the spread of the disease, CR. But readers here surely should take your anonymous, unqualified word!

[Tulemutt]

Originally Posted by tikkasf

Perhaps the question that needs to be asked from this poster, if a lock down does not work, then tell us what does.....?

Excellent question for him.

[CaliRestoration]

Originally Posted by Tulemutt

Too funny again. You are comparing the rates of nations hit early in the international outbreak, before social distancing became a recommendation in the US - with the states that came later to the infection cycle and where distancing was instituted.

Ooooh realllllyyyy? iTs aLL aBoUt dIsCovErING sOciAl diStaNciNg?



Well, you tried!

[goodheathen]

I forgot to reply yesterday about children socializing in public. I see it. Not little kids. The older the teens are, the more likely they are to be grouped together as non-relatives talking, which is the worst. I hope that when the Los Angeles school semester technically resumes, police will treat that during school hours almost as truancy.

Also, in the news today, what I said about little children being less infectious and older children like adults.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/med...?ocid=msedgntp

[Tulemutt]

Originally Posted by CaliRestoration

Ooooh realllllyyyy? iTs aLL aBoUt dIsCovErING sOciAl diStaNciNg?



Well, you tried!

Not sure what you think that chart proves. If anything it points to what I said: By mid-April, when mask-wearing and distancing became de Rigueur, the chart shows a level off ... remember that it typically takes weeks for infections to become active ... so mid-March, when the sharp rise began, meant most of those infections on the dramatic vertical occurred from February when the disease was just breaking internationally. All fits, really.

Then that sharp upturn levels off with the prevalence already established widely ... but social protocols then in place. Again, fits.

In any case, your chart is another non-sequitur in that it doesn’t address what I pointed to with regard to you trying your specious best to tie the European rates - which exploded well before the infection became overtly entrenched in most of the US (and especially before those specific states you were selecting as comps) - to US rates that have been mitigated by protocol recommendations adopted by the majority of Americans.

This is just stupid stuff from you. All day.