Death of Rayshard Brooks (statistics, parking, companies)
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Speaking of consulting with lawyers about making a statement, it seems to me the mayor would have been wiser not to immediately declare this shooting unjustified. Once you do that, haven't you basically said that the city is on the hook for a lawsuit?
You may have a point. That's not for her to decide legally.
So does that mean that because he didn’t beat her but allegedly just cheated on her that’s no problem? I guess in that case maybe he was the best husband she could get. Sad.
Or maybe they had a non-traditional marriage. It's not as uncommon as some might think.
Sadly, as I have thought about it, I think that alcoholism killed Rayshard Brooks. If he had not had a problem with alcohol, he would not have been asleep in the drive-thru at Wendy's on his child's birthday or at any time. He had to know a DUI would get him sent back to jail, but he drank anyway. Then he panicked when he realized he was going to be arrested and ran. Alcohol impairs judgement.
Quite frankly, I think the outcome would have been the same if he had been white.
You have a point but I do think the officers had other options in this particular situation. Of course the officer had cause to arrest him but I think given the climate of the city (and nation) at that time that other options could have been explored.
Or maybe they had a non-traditional marriage. It's not as uncommon as some might think.
I guess. I’ll admit I’m ignorant to many of these types of arrangements. How someone can be fine with a spouse out drinking with a girlfriend/boyfriend and then get that upset after said spouse is killed isn’t something I can logically process.
You have a point but I do think the officers had other options in this particular situation. Of course the officer had cause to arrest him but I think given the climate of the city (and nation) at that time that other options could have been explored.
I’m not sure how much discretion they were allowed. The hindsight best solution would have been to write him some sort of ticket, impound his vehicle and have him get someone to pick him up. Maybe had there not been a crowd as well as being recorded (by police cams and bystanders) they might have considered it.
I’m not sure how much discretion they were allowed. The hindsight best solution would have been to write him some sort of ticket, impound his vehicle and have him get someone to pick him up. Maybe had there not been a crowd as well as being recorded (by police cams and bystanders) they might have considered it.
Hard to do that when the he didn’t even know what city or fast food restaurant he was at. He had no clue where he was or what he was even doing. Had he been less impaired it might have been an option.
I can think of a crap ton of examples of "the worst husband." Like a whooooole lot more.
Not that Brooks was a paragon of virtue, but if those two things are among the most vile, egregious things a person could be guilty of in your book, then I'm not sure what to say to that. THIS is what "makes you sick"? Were you privy to their home life and know something the rest of us don't or something? And did she somehow forfeit her right to grieve?
I honestly don't get the level of personal disgust some people manage to muster up against the deceased and their survivors in these types of incidents.
I'm sorry, I generally agree with you on alot of things but I have to disagree with all of this. If the guy was getting drunk and going out with women while married, it was definitely taking a toll on his home life whether his wife would have admitted it or not. Was she still in love? Very likely yes. Did she want to leave the relationship? Probably not, But was it a healthy relationship? Heck no. She wasnt getting the affection a marriage demands, her children were not getting the fatherly figure necessary to grow into responsible adults either. The things he was doing would not have remained secret. His wife likely knew about it the whole time hence the lack of shock when all of this was presented to her. It likely was also taking a toll on himself as well but he was too far in or too addicted to stop (and also probably saw no reason to) Good husband in her personal perspective? Possibly. Good husband in terms of what is needed in parenthood and raising children? No - absent and also setting poor examples of leadership, the role of a father and that brings me to my next iota, that this very area is largely one of the largest sources of problems within the black community, far greater of an issue than cops killing blacks (although I am not dismissing it as an issue, but I see this issue far more prevalant.) The largest problem with our community starts with the family and upbringing and missing fatherly figures is a huge problem within the black community and whether we like to admit it or not plays a huge factor as to how are offspring grow, what they become, what their priorities are, and how they go about obtaining their desires.
Now in Ray's case, should it have costed him his life? That's subjective. But the true image of ray is not someone I particularly would largely defend, and his death - while may or may not be warranted, is also not surprising. If Ray hadn't have gotten drunk and behind a wheel and especially resisted arrest for causes which were perfectly legal causes to be arrested for he would still be alive. Responsiblity lies within us, the people to obey the laws just as much as it lies within the cops to properly enforce them. These people want cops to use minimum force on people who have absolutely no concern for anything lawful and are willing to do anything to resist the law and follow their own agenda and it is going to lead to something far worse on national level for everyone as a whlle than anything it solves in terms of the black community. Whites, get shot by cops as well and would have been very likely in this situation where a weapon was stolen from a cop and nearly used against him. The difference is, had that have happened - face it this thread wouldn't even exist.. and likely would not even be on the news.
You live, work, and treat others responsibly. Life is far more likely to treat you likewise. I havent had a single iota with a cop, ever. Im a black male with two 500 Horsepower Sports Cars that has been pulled over by 6 different cops all around the country, three of those stops happened in white enclaves (I was speeding) - and no tickets, jailtime, and a completely clean record. I bust my nads off to get what I want in life rather than stealing it. If I do drink, I do so responsibly - No DUI's yet. Is there a chance a cop could go left on me? Possibly, but it would be far more likely if I induced it such as what happened to Ray Brooks. You go out and do irresponsible things, you reap misfortune.
So I'm sorry but no. I have 0 empathy for what happened to Ray and I believe turning him into a Martyr will speak volumes AGAINST the black community more than it will ever help us if he is portrayed as an image of something we should strive to accept.
Hard to do that when the he didn’t even know what city or fast food restaurant he was at. He had no clue where he was or what he was even doing. Had he been less impaired it might have been an option.
Yeah, I thought of that. The fact he didn’t know where he was made it it hard to “go to my sister’s house around the corner” or whatever the lawyers were saying should have happened.
I’m still amazed given all that he just blew a .108.
One of the problems is that the average person is going by how this incident makes them "feel" and what they think "should" have been done.
The law is pragmatic, the policy is pragmatic, the officer's training is pragmatic. So the first thing one has to do is separate their feelings from their analysis. We can have an entirely separate conversation about whether we need to introduce more "feeling" into the law, but that is irrelevant to current laws, policies and procedures.
Second, you need to step outside of your self and ask honestly whether you have the required knowledge to be analyzing the situation. Yes, everyone has and deserves an opinion, but the problem is most opinions are not backed by any type of experience or training. What's really interesting about the laws on deadly force is that they specifically state that assessing what is reasonable is NOT determined by citizens or politicians, but a reasonable officer
Quote:
(b) Sheriffs and peace officers who are appointed or employed in conformity with Chapter 8 of Title 35 may use deadly force to apprehend a suspected felon only when the officer reasonably believes that the suspect possesses a deadly weapon or any object, device, or instrument which, when used offensively against a person, is likely to or actually does result in serious bodily injury; when the officer reasonably believes that the suspect poses an immediate threat of physical violence to the officer or others; or when there is probable cause to believe that the suspect has committed a crime involving the infliction or threatened infliction of serious physical harm.
This is a polite way of giving the speech Jack Nicholson gives in 'A Few Good Men'
As far as the Brooks incident goes, allow me to provide some clarity on some of the issues raised:
Quote:
I’m not sure how much discretion they were allowed. The hindsight best solution would have been to write him some sort of ticket, impound his vehicle and have him get someone to pick him up. Maybe had there not been a crowd as well as being recorded (by police cams and bystanders) they might have considered it.
The issue with discretion is that other than being taught you have it, there is no formal mention of it in policy re its limitations. If I pull you over with a small amount of marijuana, should I let you go? Should I confiscate and destroy it? Should I let you keep it? Should I, particularly in the case of having a body cam, follow the letter of the law and department policy and arrest you for possession of marijuana? Personally, practice for me was to take it, then destroy it within your view so you couldn't say I was keeping it. Seems reasonable, but technically, this is a felony called Tampering with Evidence. So am I a good cop or a dirty cop? None of these issues are as simple as people with emotional opinions are making them.
Discretion went out the window with body cams. You wanted em, you got em. Expect to go to jail for everything, cause no officer is going to federal prison when some lawyer Open Records all their cam footage and finds evidence of you letting people go.
So for Brooks, no, there is no discretion. The only thing they could have done was the first officer could have willfully be neglectful of Mr Brooks personal wellbeing and just left immediately upon waking him up and moving his car. Ironically, he did the right thing and is being crucified for it.
These guys didn't want to hurt anyone. You go into that call asking "What is going on here?" That becomes "Is this guy ok?" That becomes "Hmm, there's a possibility he is impaired..."
Once you reach that point, you are under a legal obligation to investigate. There is no "give him a ticket, impound his car, leave him alone" If you leave and he walks into traffic, it's your fault, he was your responsibility. If you leave and he assaults someone, it's your fault, he was your responsibility.
Another huge issue I take with many opinions is that somehow the officers need to "de-escalate" once you reach the point of making a physical arrest. You do realize people don't want to be arrested? By what manner do cops execute their sworn responsibility when a person physically resists? They HAVE to take them into custody. This misconception that we WANT to put our hands on people is crazy. Yeah, I want to tear a tendon in my hand and be left with permanent damage because I had to punch some shoplifter who would rather fight to the death than accept personal responsibility for being a thief.
If anyone wants to organize a mock arrest scenario I would gladly play the perp and show you how impossible it is to get someone into custody that doesn't let you. There's a reason you see "brute" force being applied, and that is it's 100% impossible to get someone into handcuffs unless you have overwhelming numbers, or the person complies, or is unconscious. I'm a skinny guy, but no single person on the planet could get me into handcuffs unless they knocked me out or put me into some pain compliance submission. It's not possible.
Last edited by HurricaneJ213; 07-03-2020 at 10:28 AM..
Reason: clarity
Discretion went out the window with body cams. You wanted em, you got em. Expect to go to jail for everything, cause no officer is going to federal prison when some lawyer Open Records all their cam footage and finds evidence of you letting people go.
That’s what happens. You get a pendulum response. Too far one way so let’s record everything. Then the pendulum swings the other with zero tolerance.
And I agree, by the time you go to make an arrest there is no “de-escalation” possible anymore.
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