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As for your schooling, shame on them. I've personally have had some interest on Africa and West African history, but if no one else displays this history, then one has to look for themselves. That isn't anything new in regards to African Americans.
Also, what do you consider Afrocentric behavior? Where in those photos did it say that african Americans are related to Egyptians?
Again, I believe the thing is that there was a "Black" influence in Egypt. I don't think it is about African Americans claiming to be related to Egyptians.
The majority of so called Afrocentrists who are talking about Egypt are looking at it from a Pan-African perspective. When they say "we", they are not talking about African Americans specifically but all people of African descent. I tried explaining this to the OP in the earlier pages but he couldn't comprehend it.
same as whites everybody wants to identify with the ruling class. if you can see obama as one of the brothers in the hood thinking you are direct descendant of king tut , is a snap.
And the denial continues. CK continues to insist that "nobody is claiming Egypt," even though he and a dozen others on this thread have and he personally found threads where I argued with other Afrocentrists who were doing the same.
Remarkably, he posted them not understanding that it undercuts his sad argument.
Gwilly continues to ramble on about "Pan-Africanism" even though it is a lousy argument and numerous posters on this thread have made the direct connection argument.
My point is that if one focuses on a portion of the African continent, then they center their energy on that particular area. That doesn't necessarily mean that they are Afrocentric, at large or in the truest meaning of the term.
They are Afrocentric, and they are Afrocentrists as I have just demonstrated. It doesn't matter whether you personally wish to call them that or have them viewed that way or not. This whole topic is about Afrocentrists trying to relate to a region of the world that has nothing to do with them or their ancestry, and their apparent obsession with trying to do so.
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Originally Posted by ckhthankgod
As for your dad and his friend, that is her issue
It's an issue for many, if not most afrocentrists.
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Originally Posted by ckhthankgod
and while there aren't enough African americans that have an idea about West African history, I wouldn't underestimate as to how many African Americans have some knowledge of West African history.
It doesn't matter what they may or may not know. Where is the literature by African Americans about West African history that even comes close to the kind of scholarship displayed by the likes of Davidson and Ajayi? Where are the afrocentric books about West Africa?
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Originally Posted by ckhthankgod
As for your schooling, shame on them. I've personally have had some interest on Africa and West African history, but if no one else displays this history, then one has to look for themselves. That isn't anything new in regards to African Americans.
That's what I did, and that is why I know so much about African history now that I am an adult where I didn't as an adolescent.
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Originally Posted by ckhthankgod
Also, what do you consider Afrocentric behavior?
Behavior that is reminiscent of afrocentrists and their common obsessions with trying to attribute Blackness to populations that were either never Black, not as Black as they claim, or trying to relate Black people (namely those in America) to people they do not relate to. Look to the afrocentric scholars I spoke of before or look them up for yourself.
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Originally Posted by ckhthankgod
Where in those photos did it say that african Americans are related to Egyptians?
This question makes no sense. Those photos, created by African Americans (as they were obviously not created by Egyptians), are all but telling you to your face that "these are our (African American) ancestors."
That fact that you would even ask such a question, as to imply that you do not see the obvious implication of those photos -- and therefore see nothing wrong with them -- is telling me that you are either very naive or are not interested in seeing reality is it displayed in front of your face; or are not interested in admitting to seeing it.
In light of this, I would like you to answer a question.
After having viewed those photos created by African Americans, do you honestlyfeel that they were not trying to relate African Americans with Ancient Egyptians? (And no word games either.)
If you don't honestly feel that way, then you and I have nothing further to discuss about this matter, since you obviously don't see (or don't want to admit seeing) what everyone else, including those afrocentrists who created those photos and those who "liked" them and commented on them favorably, sees.
If you do feel that way, that they were trying to relate African Americans with Ancient Egyptians, then why did you ask that loaded question?
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Originally Posted by ckhthankgod
Again, I believe the thing is that there was a "Black" influence in Egypt. I don't think it is about African Americans claiming to be related to Egyptians.
I think you've shown already that no amount of plain evidence -- and outright admissions -- presented to you will convince you to shift your opinion on the matter of afrocentrists and their claims, and therefore, I feel you and I have nothing more to discuss about it.
Last edited by Bakari Neferu; 02-22-2014 at 02:42 AM..
The majority of so called Afrocentrists who are talking about Egypt are looking at it from a Pan-African perspective.
This statement makes little sense. There are two perspectives one can look at history from:
The perspectives of the people whose stories are being conveyed, or
The perspective of a 3rd party on the matter (which is the perspective of most history, particularly African history.
There is no "Pan-African perspective" with which to view history since Pan Africanism and Pan Africanists didn't exist in those times, and Pan Africanims itself did not even first develop in Africa. It developed among the Diaspora.
What I think you mean to say is that Afrocentrists are looking at African history through an Afrocentric lens, meaning filter; meaning that they are filtering what information there is available on the subject and presenting it after having interpreted it in a way that is accordant with their personal afrocentric perspective -- and you would be right about this, but there is still a problem. You are trying to take the act of lying and misrepresenting facts and contorting this to mean that they are looking at African history from a perspective that ( I would assume) you feel is innocuous, and thus the act itself is, or should be viewed as innocuous.
Well it's not innocuous, and your attempts to twist this and make it something it obviously isn't isn't going to correct the issue.
These afrocentrists are not merely talking about Egypt. Nobody is criticizing people for talking about Egypt. These people, as I have shown in my previous posts, are actively trying to RELATE African Americans to Ancient Egyptians.
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Originally Posted by gwillyfromphilly
When they say "we", they are not talking about African Americans specifically but all people of African descent. I tried explaining this to the OP in the earlier pages but he couldn't comprehend it.
I know exactly what they are talking about and exactly what they mean, and they are wrong. They are wrong when they try to relate African Americans with Egyptians, and they are even more wrong if they try to relate all Africans or all Black people with Egyptians.
Ancient Egyptians had absolutely nothing to do with most of the rest of the continent, it doesn't matter what perspective you try to look at it from.
It is indeed African Americans who are being most targeted for delivery of afrocentric content and notions. African Americans are the spear-headers of afrocentrism. This much is obvious. I asked that other guy where he thought foreign afrocentrists had their biggest fanbase and followers. He didn't answer the question because he knows the answer and knows that it makes the fact that they were foreigners irrelevant.
Other Diasporans, and especially Africans, are not the ones making those pictures I put up before. They are not primarily the ones engaged in debates on forums about the Blackness of Egypt or the ones creating these websites and blogs trying to espouse Afrocentric notions.
They are overwhelmingly AFRICAN AMERICAN.
They are from New York. They are from California. They are from Louisiana. They almost never come from Guyana or Trinidad or Brazil unless they were raised in the states. I created a thread once that was exactly like this one with the same question of why afrocentrists obsess so much over Egyptians when they have nothing to do with them, and the people who most were on my side were themselves Africans or non-Blacks.
And the denial continues. CK continues to insist that "nobody is claiming Egypt," even though he and a dozen others on this thread have and he personally found threads where I argued with other Afrocentrists who were doing the same.
Remarkably, he posted them not understanding that it undercuts his sad argument.
Gwilly continues to ramble on about "Pan-Africanism" even though it is a lousy argument and numerous posters on this thread have made the direct connection argument.
There is nothing to get. You have nothing to do with Egypt, and have spent 60 pages arguing that you are not trying to claim Egypt as you try to claim Egypt. It is just plain foolish.
There is no such thing as "Pan Africanism." You are no more related to Egyptian than I am to Chinese under "Pan-Eurasianism."
And Why do all of you Afrocentrists use emoticons? It make syou look like children.
This statement makes little sense. There are two perspectives one can look at history from:
The perspectives of the people whose stories are being conveyed, or
The perspective of a 3rd party on the matter (which is the perspective of most history, particularly African history.
There is no "Pan-African perspective" with which to view history since Pan Africanism and Pan Africanists didn't exist in those times, and Pan Africanims itself did not even first develop in Africa. It developed among the Diaspora.
Well the facts remains that there is indeed a Pan-African perspective that exist today. As for if Pan-African perspectives existing in ancient history, it really doesn't matter because that ideology is real today. Ancient Romans and Greeks didn't see themselves from a Pan-European perspective but that still doesn't change the fact that their not European people. The same can be said for Egyptians when it comes to Africa. Posters like you annoy me because you only hold one side accountable while completely ignoring the other side. If your going to criticize people for having a Pan-African perspective than you have to criticize people for having a Pan-European perspective as well.
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What I think you mean to say is that Afrocentrists are looking at African history through an Afrocentric lens, meaning filter; meaning that they are filtering what information there is available on the subject and presenting it after having interpreted it in a way that is accordant with their personal afrocentric perspective -- and you would be right about this, but there is still a problem. You are trying to take the act of lying and misrepresenting facts and contorting this to mean that they are looking at African history from a perspective that ( I would assume) you feel is innocuous, and thus the act itself is, or should be viewed as innocuous.
Well it's not innocuous, and your attempts to twist this and make it something it obviously isn't isn't going to correct the issue.
These afrocentrists are not merely talking about Egypt. Nobody is criticizing people for talking about Egypt. These people, as I have shown in my previous posts, are actively trying to RELATE African Americans to Ancient Egyptians.
I know exactly what they are talking about and exactly what they mean, and they are wrong. They are wrong when they try to relate African Americans with Egyptians, and they are even more wrong if they try to relate all Africans or all Black people with Egyptians.
Nobody is twisting anything except you. Your making it more complex than it actually is. Please go back and read what I wrote on that. Your completely confused and unaware of what most Afrocentrists mean when they relate to Egypt.
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Ancient Egyptians had absolutely nothing to do with most of the rest of the continent, it doesn't matter what perspective you try to look at it from.
If you honestly believe that than you should have a huge problem if someone from Ireland says "we as European people created the Roman civilization" or a Native American saying "our people created the Aztec and Inca Empires" If your going to hold one group accountable than you have to hold them all accountable for having this kind of perspective.
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It is indeed African Americans who are being most targeted for delivery of afrocentric content and notions. African Americans are the spear-headers of afrocentrism. This much is obvious. I asked that other guy where he thought foreign afrocentrists had their biggest fanbase and followers. He didn't answer the question because he knows the answer and knows that it makes the fact that they were foreigners irrelevant.
Other Diasporans, and especially Africans, are not the ones making those pictures I put up before. They are not primarily the ones engaged in debates on forums about the Blackness of Egypt or the ones creating these websites and blogs trying to espouse Afrocentric notions.
They are overwhelmingly AFRICAN AMERICAN.
They are from New York. They are from California. They are from Louisiana. They almost never come from Guyana or Trinidad or Brazil unless they were raised in the states. I created a thread once that was exactly like this one with the same question of why afrocentrists obsess so much over Egyptians when they have nothing to do with them, and the people who most were on my side were themselves Africans or non-Blacks.
My most staunch opponents were...guess who?
Shrugs......What's irrelevant is what color or ethnic background you have to be to Afrocentric ideology. You can be a person from Japan and have a Afrocentric perspective. It doesn't really matter if one country has a higher concentration of Afrocentrists over another country. It doesn't change the ideology or perspective.
Well the facts remains that there is indeed a Pan-African perspective that exist today. As for if Pan-African perspectives existing in ancient history, it really doesn't matter because that ideology is real today. Ancient Romans and Greeks didn't see themselves from a Pan-European perspective but that still doesn't change the fact that their not European people. The same can be said for Egyptians when it comes to Africa. Posters like you annoy me because you only hold one side accountable while completely ignoring the other side. If your going to criticize people for having a Pan-African perspective than you have to criticize people for having a Pan-European perspective as well.
Nobody is twisting anything except you. Your making it more complex than it actually is. Please go back and read what I wrote on that. Your completely confused and unaware of what most Afrocentrists mean when they relate to Egypt.
If you honestly believe that than you should have a huge problem if someone from Ireland says "we as European people created the Roman civilization" or a Native American saying "our people created the Aztec and Inca Empires" If your going to hold one group accountable than you have to hold them all accountable for having this kind of perspective.
Shrugs......What's irrelevant is what color or ethnic background you have to be to Afrocentric ideology. You can be a person from Japan and have a Afrocentric perspective. It doesn't really matter if one country has a higher concentration of Afrocentrists over another country. It doesn't change the ideology or perspective.
Along with this, what is odd that considering that most Western Hemisphere Black people can't pinpoint where in Western Africa their ancestors come from, even if an Afrocentrist from this side of the world focused on a civilization that is in Western Africa doesn't mean that the Afrocentrist couldn't be scrutinized for that reason. Meaning, that a focus on a Western African civilization doesn't necessarily equal a relation for a Western Hemisphere Black people, let alone an Afrocentrist. That is why I believe that proper wording and/or titles ARE important. Just because someone attends church doesn't necessarily make them a Christian. So, clarity of names, titles, perspectives and the like are important.
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