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Let me start of my saying that I am a white man and an incredible fan of Ghana, Mali, Songhai, Kanem,-Bornu, the Nok, Tichitt-Walata, Chengueti, Oudani, Audoghost, Nsibidi, Adrinka, Ajami, Timbuktu, Gao, Djenno djenne, Djenne proper, the Benin empire. the Oyo empire, the Hausa-Fulani states, the Ashanti empire, the Benin city walls, Sungbo's Eredu, and Loropeni, and all else that is West African. I think it can truly be said that there is a real historical Niger River civilization cycle that can studied with great admiration.
In that context, my question is, why is it that "Afrocentrists," who are largely comprised of African Americans, are obsessed with Egypt?
African Americans are descended from 13 African counties in west and central African. There are statistically no African Americans of Egyptian descent what-so-ever. Modern Egyptians are thought to be by geneticists almost identical to the ancients. The ancients had demonstrably ( by both art and mummies) lighter skin, and finer features. Egyptian haplotypes are a mix of North African (not sub-Saharan) and West Asian.
but the question of whether the "original" Egyptians are "black" (they weren't) is moot. they are culturally vastly different anyway. No African American has an ancestor that built a pyramid or wrote in hieroglyphic. They had great ancestors that built fine stone cities and wrote in Ajami, but they were not Egyptian.
Arocentrics like to argue that Europeans all trace their ancestry back to the Greeks and Romans, and thus they should be able to claim Egypt, but Common European ancestry is real, whereas African is not. When the Untied States was formed, our founding fathers debated the merits of Greek democracy against Roman Republicanism. There is no similar debate regarding modern Africa dictatorships vis a vis pharaohonic god-king rule (and what would be the difference?).
I can prove that the Ancient Egyptians are the same as today's largely Caucasoid looking Egyptians in any debate. Eurasians back-migrated into north Africa before historical times, and even the Africans that stayed in Africa evolved to look more Eurasian. There simply was no large "black" population in Egypt in historical times.
Where are the pyramids and hieroglyphic tests in West Africa if they are so closely related?
Ancient Egypt, regardless of race (and they weren't black), has no connection what-so-ever to Africa Americans.
Last edited by cachibatches; 12-30-2013 at 05:51 AM..
Do you have some good solid sources that support the statement that African-Americans are obsessed with Egypt?
I've never heard that before. Is this purely in 'Academia circles'? It seems that you are in Academia, and getting into arguments with African-American students over Egypt? Maybe some personal agenda you have or something? Is that what this thread is all about?
I've never heard your average African-American person go on about Egypt, nor have I seen any 'obsessive' references to it among African-American rap music, pop music, film, literature, etc.
Do you have some good solid sources that support the statement that African-Americans are obsessed with Egypt?
I've never heard that before. Is this purely in 'Academia circles'? It seems that you are in Academia, and getting into arguments with African-American students over Egypt? Maybe some personal agenda you have or something? Is that what this thread is all about?
I've never heard your average African-American person go on about Egypt, nor have I seen any 'obsessive' references to it among African-American rap music, pop music, film, literature, etc.
This......It is is believed that Nubia(aka Kush or in Classical Greek was associated with Ethiopia, which translates to mean Sun Burned Faces) could be referred to as Black Egypt. It was an area that straddled current day southern Egypt and northern Sudan.
While you had a period of some Hip-Hop artists that referred to Nubian(s), it wasn't obsessive, which was mentioned above.
When African Americans make reference to Africa, many or most understand that they descend from Western Africa from modern day Senegal to Angola, with a tiny percentage from Mozambique. In plurality, you could say that most came from modern day Nigeria(specifically Yoruba and Ibo/Igbo).
Do you have some good solid sources that support the statement that African-Americans are obsessed with Egypt?
I've never heard that before. Is this purely in 'Academia circles'? It seems that you are in Academia, and getting into arguments with African-American students over Egypt? Maybe some personal agenda you have or something? Is that what this thread is all about?
I've never heard your average African-American person go on about Egypt, nor have I seen any 'obsessive' references to it among African-American rap music, pop music, film, literature, etc.
Everytime an Egyptian exhibit comes to town, or something else similar (heck, even a search on this forum will probably show some threads), there is some group of blacks (small minority of them) that keep proclaiming that Egypt was black (even will set up a small protests sometimes), and the entire world is in some conspiracy to keep this knowledge secret. I have also heard claims that everyone ranging from Socrates to Augustus Caesar was black.
I think this is just part of some trend where some groups who perceive themselves as oppressed, search back through history and and attempt to revise history to legitimize themselves in a modern context. Why the need to legitimize? I have no idea other than some of these people feel the group they represent has not contributed much to the modern world, thus do not feel like a stakeholder in it.
To be honest, I have seen valid arguments on both sides pertaining to the race of Egyptians.
Personally, I don't know or care about what ppl thousands of years were doing since I have my own personal accomplishments/achievements to be proud of and don't have to cling onto other human beings actions for a sense of self-worth and value.
One thing I learned from being on internet forums since the age of 9 (now 21) is that both afrocentrics, eurocentrics and supremacists are almost always very volatile, delusional, stubborn, hostile and irrational people. They almost always lack the ability to reason and be subjective; and I try to avoid any kind of interactions with them.
Anybody obsessed with this tired subject needs some self-esteem quick!
Last edited by PrestigiousReputability; 12-30-2013 at 09:05 AM..
To be honest, I have seen valid arguments on both sides pertaining to the race of Egyptians.
Personally, I don't know or care about what ppl thousands of years were doing since I have my own personal accomplishments/achievements to be proud of and don't have to cling onto other human beings actions for a sense of self-worth and value.
One thing I learned from being on internet forums since the age of 9 (now 21) is that both afrocentrics, eurocentrics and supremacists are almost always very volatile, delusional, stubborn, hostile and irrational people. They almost always lack the ability to reason and be subjective; and I try to avoid any kind of interactions with them.
Anybody obsessed with this tired subject needs some self-esteem quick!
And what is our real history? What you deem it as? I don't claim Egypt myself. But Black Americans really need to start searching out their true history themselves and if somehow it goes back to East Africa, who are you to tell them they are wrong? I'm not afrocentric as well. But it's high time for for Black American to educate themselves outside of the school system on who they are and their original culture anyway and not get it from anyone else.
Let me start of my saying that I am a white man and an incredible fan of Ghana, Mali, Songhai, Kanem,-Bornu, the Nok, Tichitt-Walata, Chengueti, Oudani, Audoghost, Nsibidi, Adrinka, Ajami, Timbuktu, Gao, Djenno djenne, Djenne proper, the Benin empire. the Oyo empire, the Hausa-Fulani states, the Ashanti empire, the Benin city walls, Sungbo's Eredu, and Loropeni, and all else that is West African. I think it can truly be said that there is a real historical Niger River civilization cycle that can studied with great admiration.
In that context, my question is, why is it that "Afrocentrists," who are largely comprised of African Americans, are obsessed with Egypt?
It has nothing to do with being obsessed. It's just looking at it from a Pan-African viewpoint. If someone is going to talk about ancient Africa history then Egypt is going to get eventually brought up into the conversation as it's one of the oldest civilizations in not only Africa but the world itself.
Quote:
African Americans are descended from 13 African counties in west and central African. There are statistically no African Americans of Egyptian descent what-so-ever.
Modern Egyptians are thought to be by geneticists almost identical to the ancients. The ancients had demonstrably ( by both art and mummies) lighter skin, and finer features. Egyptian haplotypes are a mix of North African (not sub-Saharan) and West Asian.
Modern Egyptians today are a mixture of indigenous Egyptian ancestry, Arab, and other foreign ancestry. Most Modern Egyptians do not look like the ancient Egyptian people as they are more mixed with foreign ancestry.
Quote:
I can prove that the Ancient Egyptians are the same as today's largely Caucasoid looking Egyptians in any debate. Eurasians back-migrated into north Africa before historical times, and even the Africans that stayed in Africa evolved to look more Eurasian. There simply was no large "black" population in Egypt in historical times.
So how are we defining "Blackness" based on your high level Eurocentric viewpoint? Will you be using the Jim Crow idealogy?
Quote:
Where are the pyramids and hieroglyphic tests in West Africa if they are so closely related?
Why would you expect West Africa to be exactly the same as North Africa? Would you expect Eastern Europe to be the same as Northern Europe?
Quote:
Ancient Egypt, regardless of race (and they weren't black), has no connection what-so-ever to Africa Americans.
Why do you have such a problem with African Americans wanting to seek out knowledge and embrace different cultures in Africa? African Americans lost their cultural connection to Africa as a result of the Atlantic Slave Trade. Many cannot point to a country of origin like many other people of the world can do. Can you really blame Black Americans for having a Pan-African viewpoint when it comes to the continent of Africa? Yet you have a problem when African Americans want to give props to Egypt. Whether you like it or not, Egypt is in Africa, so instead of having issues with Afrocentrics embracing Egypt as African people, maybe you should look in the mirror and ask yourself "why do you have such a problem with African Americans having a Pan-African viewpoint?".
Last edited by gwillyfromphilly; 12-30-2013 at 12:42 PM..
And what is our real history? What you deem it as? I don't claim Egypt myself. But Black Americans really need to start searching out their true history themselves and if somehow it goes back to East Africa, who are you to tell them they are wrong? I'm not afrocentric as well. But it's high time for for Black American to educate themselves outside of the school system on who they are and their original culture anyway and not get it from anyone else.
Great post!
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