Why do Afrocentists try to relate themselves to Egypt rather than claim their real history? (people, cons)
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Do you have some good solid sources that support the statement that African-Americans are obsessed with Egypt?
I've never heard that before. Is this purely in 'Academia circles'? It seems that you are in Academia, and getting into arguments with African-American students over Egypt? Maybe some personal agenda you have or something? Is that what this thread is all about?
I've never heard your average African-American person go on about Egypt, nor have I seen any 'obsessive' references to it among African-American rap music, pop music, film, literature, etc.
I don't think that there could be "evidence" proper, only anecdotal. I can only tell you that I have been viciously attacked on this and many other history forums for merely speaking the truth.
Perhaps I did overstate it.
But as stated in my first paragraph, I have a great love of the NIGER river valley civilizations, and I find it a great shame that we are largely not raising a generation of African America archeologists who want to go uncover the truth about their real past.
To be honest, I have seen valid arguments on both sides pertaining to the race of Egyptians.
Personally, I don't know or care about what ppl thousands of years were doing since I have my own personal accomplishments/achievements to be proud of and don't have to cling onto other human beings actions for a sense of self-worth and value.
One thing I learned from being on internet forums since the age of 9 (now 21) is that both afrocentrics, eurocentrics and supremacists are almost always very volatile, delusional, stubborn, hostile and irrational people. They almost always lack the ability to reason and be subjective; and I try to avoid any kind of interactions with them.
Anybody obsessed with this tired subject needs some self-esteem quick!
Anybody claiming that the Egyptians were once a different, magical, blacker people needs a self esteem check. Anyone who is obsessed with refuting this is a good historian who does not like to see lies told in the name of further the self esteem of certain groups.
What is more, again, my purpose is that I wish three was more discussion of African American's real ancestors. I just bought a copy of Ibn Battuta, and plan to start it as soon as I wrap up another couple of books I am reading.
West and Central Africa desperately need real attention.
And what is our real history? What you deem it as? I don't claim Egypt myself. But Black Americans really need to start searching out their true history themselves and if somehow it goes back to East Africa, who are you to tell them they are wrong? I'm not afrocentric as well. But it's high time for for Black American to educate themselves outside of the school system on who they are and their original culture anyway and not get it from anyone else.
It is what it is- west and central Africa.
This is exactly the kind of fuzzy thinking I am talking about. No offense, but do you know about the Sahelian civilizations? The Forest Kingdoms? Any of the aspects of Africa civilization that I mentioned in paragraph one?
You see, African Americans have a real heroic past, comparable to Egypt, or to how Europeans view Rome, or Mexicans the Aztecs. It should be revived.
This is exactly the kind of fuzzy thinking I am talking about. No offense, but do you know about the Sahelian civilizations? The Forest Kingdoms? Any of the aspects of Africa civilization that I mentioned in paragraph one?
You see, African Americans have a real heroic past, comparable to Egypt, or to how Europeans view Rome, or Mexicans the Aztecs. It should be revived.
Many African Americans know about the kingdoms of Mali, Ghana and Songhai as well. So, I think the problem is with the generalization(as usual) as to how African Americans think. I think that is as much of a problem, if not more so, than what the OP states. Like I mentioned before, there is an area of southern Egypt that could be referred to as "Black" Egypt and that is according to historians and people of various backgrounds.
It has nothing to do with being obsessed. It's just looking at it from a Pan-African viewpoint. If someone is going to talk about ancient Africa history then Egypt is going to get eventually brought up into the conversation as it's one of the oldest civilizations in not only Africa but the world itself.
Which is of course a nonsensical viewpoint. As a man descended from Europeans, I don't claim Iranian history based on some "Pan-Eurasian" outlook. However, since Persians spoke and Indo-European language, I would have more right to do so than African Americans have to claim Egypt. Iranians are more closely connected to me that Egyptians are to African Americas.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwillyfromphilly
Modern Egyptians today are a mixture of indigenous Egyptian ancestry, Arab and other foreign ancestry. Most Modern Egyptians do not look like the ancient Egyptian people as they are more mixed with foreign ancestry.
This is one of the myths that Afro-centrists tell themselves. The truth is, they are virtually the same people that they always were. Armies of tens of thousands that win battles, go home and leave garrison troops don't effect populations of millions to any significant degree. No one disagrees with this. Even Keita, who is endlessly cited by the Afrocentrists, came to admit that this was true, and that (slight paraphrase) the diversity that we see in Egypt is similar to what has always been there.
In fact, because of the Arab slave trade, it has been proven that there is slightly more sub-Saharan in Egyptians than in ancient times. due to copywrite rules, I cannot post the studies, but the studies were done by Meteusz Baca, C. Fox, and Alison graver if you want to look them up yourself.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwillyfromphilly
So how are we defining "Blackness" based on you high level Eurocentric viewpoint? Will you be using the Jim Crow idealogy?
Again, more fuzzy thinking to hold onto a myth. There is nothing wrong with what I said. Regardless of how "black" you think they were, virtually no African American has an Egyptian ancestor. They are doing a disservice to their own ancestors by clinging to a civilization that has nothing to do with them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwillyfromphilly
Why would you expect West Africa to be exactly the same as North Africa? Would you expect Eastern Europe to be the same as Northern Europe?
Exactly my point: I don't and they aren't. Africa Americans come from west and central Africa.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwillyfromphilly
Why do you have such a problem with African Americans wanting to seek out knowledge and embrace different cultures in Africa? African Americans lost their cultural connection to Africa as a result of the Atlantic Slave Trade. Many cannot point to a country of origin like many other people of the world can do. Can you really blame Black Americans for having a Pan-African viewpoint when it comes to the continent of Africa? Yet you have a problem when African Americans want to give props to Egypt. Whether you like it or not, Egypt is in Africa, so instead of having issues with Afrocentrics embracing Egypt as African people, maybe you should look in the mirror and ask yourself "why do you have such a problem with African Americans having a Pan-African viewpoint?".
I don't. In fact, I want them to re-connect with their real culture. I as a white person would like to connect with that culture.
The things that I have a problem with are
A) Ignoring their real ancestors and
B) Trying to divorce others from their real ancestors with the kind of myths stated above. Modern Egyptians are not Arabs, they are the descendants of those who built the pyramids, and it is not correct for a group that has nothing to do with Egypt to step in and try to steal the ancient Egyptians away from their descendants.
Many African Americans know about the kingdoms of Mali, Ghana and Songhai as well. So, I think the problem is with the generalization(as usual) as to how African Americans think. I think that is as much of a problem, if not more so, than what the OP states. Like I mentioned before, there is an area of southern Egypt that could be referred to as "Black" Egypt and that is according to historians and people of various backgrounds.
I have already apologized to those who think that I have overgeneralized, but "black Egypt" nonsense is being taught at our universities in African history and black studies classes. Whiles those in mainstream history and archeology are learning about real Egypt, black students are being taught myth.
This is a very important issue and cannot be dismissed.
As for Nubians, they were a fine civilization that was a partner/adversary to Egypt in much the same way that Greece and Rome were partners/adversaries. but again, virtually no African American has a Nubian ancestor.
Why not study your real ancestors? There is a vast amount of work to be done in res-discovering and cataloging the glories of West Africa.
I have already apologized to those who think that I have overgeneralized, but "black Egypt" nonsense is being taught at our universities in African history and black studies classes. Whiles those in mainstream history and archeology are learning about real Egypt, black students are being taught myth.
This is a very important issue and cannot be dismissed.
Again, Nubia wasn't fake and even according to historians, in which I'm sure some are White and even the Greeks themselves, that land was located in parts of southern Egypt and northern Sudan. So, perhaps that is what is going on in many of these classes. Ready........read: Egypt: Nubia in Modern and Ancient times
Again, Nubia wasn't fake and even according to historians, in which I'm sure some are White and even the Greeks themselves, that land was located in parts of southern Egypt and northern Sudan. So, perhaps that is what is going on in many of these classes. Ready........read: Egypt: Nubia in Modern and Ancient times
I added something above, let me re-state:
As for Nubians, they were a fine civilization that was a partner/adversary to Egypt in much the same way that Greece and Rome were partners/adversaries. But again, virtually no African American has a Nubian ancestor.
What is more, whiles they may have overlapped, Nubia was not Egypt.
Why not study your real ancestors? There is a vast amount of work to be done in res-discovering and cataloging the glories of West Africa.
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