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What does any of that have to do with discussing Egypt though and I could also say that your comments are a diversion.
Also, who are the Afrocentrists on this thread?
Also, what if people were to say that people of African descent are imterested in accomplishments that took place on said continent the same way that people of European descent love to display the values that came from Rome and Greece?
We are not talking about people taking an interest. I am "interested" in Africa despite not having a drop of African blood. We are talking about people perpetuating nasty myths in order to claim someone else's heritage as their own. We are talking about people lying. We are talking about people preaching anti-history. We are specifically and explicitly talking about some nasty afro-centric traits.
And example of an afrocentrist who has done so on this thread- Gwilliyfromphilly who has perpetuated the lie that modern Egyptians are descended from Arabs.
Again, this is almost a comical diversion. I have stated very clearly 4-5 times now what this thread is about...it is not about people taking a neutral interest, but re-writing history.
As for the Iroquois, they have nothing to do with anything. But since they were brought up, the American government is a modification of the English government informed by the Roman republic. Our founding fathers debated whether America should have a Greek model or a Roman model. The Iroqouis largely do not have much to do with it. Perhaps there was a conversation at some point that makes and interesting footnote, but there is no divorcing American government from western tradition.
How do you respond to the fact of Beta Israel or that some estimates state that a notable amount of Africans brought to the US were Muslim before they even left?
What amounts? Islam was in West Africa for hundreds of years before the slave trade. What has this to do with Egypt?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckhthankgod
Also, is it to counter history or to form an identity due to not having the choice to do so under said groups terms? While I don't necessarily agree with some of the aspects mentioned, I can understand due to this fact and also due to coming into the knowledge of more information pertaining to those that fall under the same social-historical identity.
Is seems we are finally done with some of the straw man arguments that have been bandied about for seven pages. Good.
If you approve of a group constructing an identity based on anti-history, lies and cultural theft, then we really haven't much to discuss...you are on the side of the afro-centrics. I find it appalling. I think African Americans should seek identity in truth. And the truth is, they have a good one.
It would be comical if not so sad that we have spent seven pages of people stating that no one is trying to claim Egypt as they are claiming Egypt and defending it.
We are not talking about people taking an interest. I am "interested" in Africa despite not having a drop of African blood. We are talking about people perpetuating nasty myths in order to claim someone else's heritage as their own. We are talking about people lying. We are talking about people preaching anti-history. We are specifically and explicitly talking about some nasty afro-centric traits.
And example of an afrocentrist who has done so on this thread- Gwilliyfromphilly who has perpetuated the lie that modern Egyptians are descended from Arabs.
Again, this is almost a comical diversion. I have stated very clearly 4-5 times now what this thread is about...it is not about people taking a neutral interest, but re-writing history.
As for the Iroquois, they have nothing to do with anything. But since they were brought up, the American government is a modification of the English government informed by the Roman republic. Our founding fathers debated whether America should have a Greek model or a Roman model. The Iroqouis largely do not have much to do with it. Perhaps there was a conversation at some point that makes and interesting footnote, but there is no divorcing American government from western tradition.
You don't have to divorce yourself from Western tradition in order to involve other components. This country is an example of that, in fact.
Also, you can take the lying about history aspect beyond this subject. What my thing is, is in relation to using Afrocentrists and African Americans interchangeably, which has occurred many times on this thread. Afrocentrists can come from anywhere in the diaspora, as could any type of centrist. That is something that should be made clear.
Again, if these people are talking about Nubia, then while they may not have descended from said group, they are considered to be of the same identity group in terms of the social construct that is race.
What amounts? Islam was in West Africa for hundreds of years before the slave trade. What has this to do with Egypt?
Is seems we are finally done with some of the straw man arguments that have been bandied about for seven pages. Good.
If you approve of a group constructing an identity based on anti-history, lies and cultural theft, then we really haven't much to discuss...you are on the side of the afro-centrics. I find it appalling. I think African Americans should seek identity in truth. And the truth is, they have a good one.
It would be comical if not so sad that we have spent seven pages of people stating that no one is trying to claim Egypt as they are claiming Egypt and defending it.
That comment about Islam is in reference to that post.
Whatever with the strawman comment. My point has been explain several times.
And example of an afrocentrist who has done so on this thread- Gwilliyfromphilly who has perpetuated the lie that modern Egyptians are descended from Arabs.
So let me get this straight. I'm an Afrocentrist because I said that Modern Egyptians not only have indigenous Egyptian ancestry but Arab ancestry as well. Many Egyptians today identify as Arabs. So how am I an Afrocentrist again?
You don't have to divorce yourself from Western tradition in order to involve other components. This country is an example of that, in fact.
Since this has nothing to do with Afrocentrism, I will let the point the point drop with a suggestion that you read John Locke and the Federalist Papers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckhthankgod
Also, you can take the lying about history aspect beyond this subject. What my thing is, is in relation to using Afrocentrists and African Americans interchangeably, which has occurred many times on this thread. Afrocentrists can come from anywhere in the diaspora, as could any type of centrist. That is something that should be made clear.
Not by me. You were the one who brought the issue up. I apologized several times if I gave the appearance, and re-stated my thesis idea. I am not going to do so again. You are imagining something that has not occurred.
I am of course very concerned about young African Americans eating this crap up, as it is being taught in some universities, and is all over the internet. By I have not used Afrocentrist and African American interchangeably at all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckhthankgod
Again, if these people are talking about Nubia, then while they may not have descended from said group, they are considered to be of the same identity group in terms of the social construct that is race.
Nubia is not Egypt, and Egypt is not Nubia. They overlap some, but are not the same.
And so I challenge once again- what effect had Egypt or Nubia on African American sand their ancestors? did West Africans build pyramids? Did they write in hieroglyphic or meroitic? Are African Americans ruled by pharaohs? Where is this connection? Specifically please?
So let me get this straight. I'm an Afrocentrist because I said that Modern Egyptians not only have indigenous Egyptian ancestry but Arab ancestry as well. Many Egyptians today identify as Arabs. So how am I an Afrocentrist again?
Because you are perpetuating an afrocentric myth.
They may "identify" as Arabs, but they are descended from North Africans and Eurasians back migrated in the stone age. Arab input is miniscule.
Since this has nothing to do with Afrocentrism, I will let the point the point drop with a suggestion that you read John Locke and the Federalist Papers.
Not by me. You were the one who brought the issue up. I apologized several times if I gave the appearance, and re-stated my thesis idea. I am not going to do so again. You are imagining something that has not occurred.
I am of course very concerned about young African Americans eating this crap up, as it is being taught in some universities, and is all over the internet. By I have not used Afrocentrist and African American interchangeably at all.
Nubia is not Egypt, and Egypt is not Nubia. They overlap some, but are not the same.
And so I challenge once again- what effect had Egypt or Nubia on African American sand their ancestors? did West Africans build pyramids? Did they write in hieroglyphic or meroitic? Are African Americans ruled by pharaohs? Where is this connection? Specifically please?
Come on, you can go back and see it in the thread in terms of using them interchangeably.
No one is saying Nubia are one and the same, but that it is/was a part of what is now Egypt and that it is a recognized society of Black people. This is within the view of historians of various backgrounds as well.
Also, if people are true Afrocentrists, wouldn't they also be in tune to the great Western African civilizations?
Lastly, being Italian and Roman are necessarily one and the same, as there is plenty of variation within that country in terms of dialect, culture, history, etc.
They may "identify" as Arabs, but they are descended from North Africans and Eurasians back migrated in the stone age. Arab input is miniscule.
When did I say that Modern Egyptians are only descended from Arabs? I clearly acknowledged that modern day Egyptians do have indigenous ancestry. Its just that you have to factor in the foreign(non-African) ancestry as well. Even with that said, you probably still view it as an Afrocentric myth.
Come on, you can go back and see it in the thread in terms of using them interchangeably.
Show me where?
Actually, don't bother. I was falsely attacked by Tiger Beer after my first post and immediately began apologizing. After re-reading my first post, I conclude that I said nothing wrong. So you will find no instance of this from me. It is another straw man.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckhthankgod
No one is saying Nubia are one and the same, but that it is/was a part of what is now Egypt and that it is a recognized society of Black people. This is within the view of historians of various backgrounds as well.
It was conquered by Egypt, and then turned around and conquered Egypt. That is what historians say. They are not interchangeable. Nubia does not give African Americans a back door to Egypt.
And again, what aspects of Egyptians and/or Nubian culture are you saying are relevant to African Americans and their ancestors? I have asked this 3-4 times now. Did your ancestors build pyramids? did they write in hieroglyphic? What is the connection?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckhthankgod
Also, if people are true Afrocentrists, wouldn't they also be in tune to the great Western African civilizations?
They use it as a footnote. It is sad.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckhthankgod
Lastly, being Italian and Roman are necessarily one and the same, as there is plenty of variation within that country in terms of dialect, culture, history, etc.
Actually, since citizenship was extended throughout Italy, they are.
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