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There are advantages to a simple private funeral, maybe out in nature, away from other people. Not condoning or justifying anything with this particular messy instance. But sometimes people bring on more trouble by not simply thinking things through, and finding better options. That's another messy aspect to some religions and institutions. A person gets stuck thinking he/she must rely on them and other people, which starts a problematic path that could be easily avoided.
Last edited by Thoreau424; 04-05-2024 at 10:41 AM..
I can claim to be Baptist all I want, but I do not believe that some day when I kick the bucket that my loved ones should go to the local Baptist church in some other city and demand a funeral to their expectations.
It's obvious the deceased wasn't an active Catholic, nor was he/she a part of this local parish.
Do you believe that your love ones should ask a Baptist church to perform a sermon at your funeral?
My understanding was that the deceased was Catholic and desired a Catholic funeral. The deceased's friends requested it at this cathedral. The local clergy found out the person was trans and declined to provide full honors / ceremonies on that basis. So it wasn't a question of the person not being part of the church, but not in good standing according to the church's beliefs.
I think many people think that being Catholic is like an ethnic group. It actually doesn't work. Catholics are registered members of a local parish and attend the local parish's Masses on a regular basis.
If I asked St. Patrick's to give my Catholic husband a funeral Mass, the answer would be no. I would be expected to arrange his funeral at my local parish.
Quote:
BAPTISM
It is anticipated that parents seeking to have their child baptized within the Catholic Church will make arrangements at their local Catholic parish.
If circumstances suggest that the baptism of the child should take place at St. Patrick’s Cathedral (e.g. the parents were married at St. Patrick’s Cathedral), please contact
We reserve the right to exercise discretion in the processing of requests, and may choose to decline or accept them based on our internal criteria. Your understanding in this matter is appreciated.
FUNERALS
It is anticipated that the funeral for a deceased Catholic will take place in his or her local parish church. If circumstances suggest that a funeral should be requested at St. Patrick’s Cathedral, the funeral home should contact the Office of the Cathedral Rector.
When my mother died, she wished to buried in a family plot with her mother/father/cousins. She was a baptized, confirmed, married in the Catholic Church. I had to provide proof that she had a Catholic funeral Mass to the Catholic Cemetery. Otherwise, they would have refused to bury her with her family.
There are advantages to a simple private funeral, maybe out in nature, away from other people. Not condoning or justifying anything with this particular messy instance. But sometimes people bring on more trouble by not simply thinking things through, and finding better options. That's another messy aspect to some religions and institutions. A person gets stuck thinking he/she must rely on them and other people, which starts a problematic path that could be easily avoided.
In this instance, I believe that the "messy aspect" was deliberately sought as a spectacle! There was no interest in avoiding it.
In this instance, I believe that the "messy aspect" was deliberately sought as a spectacle! There was no interest in avoiding it.
I've suspected that too. The people involved surely understood the factors involved and potential issues, but went ahead with it anyway. Not that it pardons those who reacted, but this could have been avoided entirely. Who knows what got ignored or neglected while extra police were involved, traffic created, time spent chasing down the story, people arguing over this, divisions deepened, etc. People from all sides need to take more personal responsibility.
Last edited by Thoreau424; 04-05-2024 at 11:28 AM..
It's obvious the deceased wasn't an active Catholic, nor was he/she a part of this local parish.
You assume too much. I don't know one way or the other and neither do you. I think the salient point is that the deceased was Catholic and requested a Catholic funeral from a particularly illustrious Catholic facility ... a concept that doesn't exist for Baptists, as they are all independently governed and there's not a tendency to see particular churches as especially holy or prestigious vs any other.
I have a trans granddaughter. I'll admit it didn't touch my personal life until that was revealed last year. But I take your point: LGBTW people represent about 7% of the population, whereas most 'Muricans think it's closer to 25% (the average of man-on-the-street estimates, per Gallup, being 23.6%). I would imagine trans people are a small fraction of 1%.
But the pearl-clutching of people about this reflects slippery-slope concerns and irrational beliefs about recruitment or corruption of "innocent" / straight young people.
Here's more the reality of the situation:
The obscene rise in mentally troubled adolescents over the last several years, as measured by recent publications by the CDC, especially girls, are directly proportional to the concommitant rise in transgenderism and it's advocacy in schools, higher education, sports, law, and culture in general. https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2023/p0213-yrbs.html
Most ALL children who fall into the net of 'trans-cool-genderism' suffer from one or several co-morbidities like self-harming, anorexia, depression, anxiety and other personality behavior disorders. The preliminary Cass Report in the UK identified a majority of kids seeking puberty blockers and cross sex hormones as autistic or gender-non-conforming kids, the latter who were so obviously same-sex attracted that clinicians at the now defunct clinic laughingly coined the phrase "Trans the Gay Away". The US has neither gathered nor published any data or statistics on this subject but several whistleblowers , like Jamie Reed, have bravely stepped forward.
These are not irrational beliefs.
They are serious, dangerous realities that are responsible for what is now being called by many the worst medical scandal in history.
The disrespectful display of gender activists at a Catholic church is the least of it.
Last edited by PamelaIamela; 04-05-2024 at 12:41 PM..
In this instance, I believe that the "messy aspect" was deliberately sought as a spectacle! There was no interest in avoiding it.
There is a whiff of that, to be sure. Probably deniable though.
As I effectively said earlier, if I were from a Catholic heritage, as an atheist I would not seek to have my funeral officiated by the Church, much less a particularly prestigious one, unless I were wanting to make a statement / go out with a bang so to speak. Nor would I put my survivors up to such a stunt; the most I would do is give it my tacit approval if that was their desire and I agreed with it.
On the other hand it's entirely possible this person just had warm fuzzy memories of growing up Catholic and naively assumed the church would at least do a funeral, regardless of their standing, rather than urinate on the corpse so to speak. Not all Catholics have a good grip on Catholic doctrine and tradition and may feel entitled to things the Church is not officially committed to; or they may have been familiar with particular priests who have no problem and would observe the mass even though technically that's in violation of official policy, without understanding that the next priest -- probably even most priests -- may feel just the opposite.
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