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I had an interview today with a company very close to my home. My current job is only part time because my hours were cut. I applied to this new company because it would cut down my commute significantly.
But I have some concerns. I'm used to working for a flexible boss and laid back office culture. I have to move on because I need full time. My concerns with this new company are that they are "old school." The manager brought up today that they don't allow cell phones on the desk. Really? I'm not one of those people that uses my phone all day during work. No going on the internet. And she brought up how important attendance is - I take that to mean they aren't very flexible. I wouldn't expect to take time off on a regular basis. For medical reasons I go to the Dr. twice a month. Which means I would be late two mornings a month.
I have worked for companies that allow me to use the internet as long as my work is done. I haven't been told I couldn't have my cell phone out since my first job out of high school. I'm 35. I don't know maybe I have had it too easy? It just seems like a really rigid work culture. Red Flags? Or have I been spoiled?
Weeeell, maybe its rigid and maybe its not. Most of my jobs were, according to your description, old school/rigid. There were reasons. Maybe look at it a different way:
No cell phones in use at your desk. We had an office-supplied land line for business calls, but it was acceptable to use this phone for a personal call (both getting one or making one) as long as it wasn't excessive. If we had control of when the call happened, we were asked to use lunch or a break for a personal call. This does not mean you couldn't deal with an unplanned call for any reason. The point was, you are being paid to work, so spend your time on work. If something significant came up, you were expected to let your supervisor know and some arrangement would be worked out. 99.9 percent of the time there was no problem.
We had office-supplied desktops/laptops with internet, but again, if you wanted to use it for personal stuff you were expected to do this during breaks, lunch, before or after your work hours. The company was paying for YOUR access remember. Now no one actively spied on everyone to make sure they weren't sneaking online to shop or chat, but the point was made. As before, you are being paid to work on company business, so do company business. If someone abused it and spent hours doing their own web browsing, their work was not being done or done well. They would be reprimanded or fired. If anyone viewed illegal stuff, pornography, gambled, political extremism, hate speech, etc. they would be fired period. There were also security concerns and exposure of the office software and systems to cyber threats to consider.
Attendance. If you can't be at work on time you were expected to tell someone. Of course life happens and people would be late; weather, traffic, car trouble, family. Again, an adult knows how to call in, tell someone ahead of time, subtract the missing time from their payroll, or make it up another time. If you had an appointment during work hours, arrange that ahead of time. Simple. We weren't prisoners, but we were answerable to others. We usually filled out our time on the honor system. If someone was caught falsifying their time, reprimand and/or firing. Its not rocket science to be honest, plan ahead, or inform someone when there's a problem. The vast majority of the time there was no problem at all. The point was, keep people informed.
For all my jobs like this, most of it was the expectation that you are a responsible adult who can control your own urges and impulses. You are being paid for a specific set of work during a set amount of hours, so you work them. You are not being paid or supported so you can conduct your social life at the expense of an employer. The managers are all answerable to another layer. Your department is responsible for working within a payroll budget. Time is money. If you waste time or cheat on time, the company suffers and so do you. Most of my jobs were government-funded....taxpayer funded. Do you expect the taxpayers to tolerate employees who don't do their jobs? Are you answerable to family? To friends? To children? Don't you behave in a responsible manner to them? Why is a job any different?
OK, the jobs were rigid. However, every employee knew who to count on. Everyone worked hard, and cared about what they did. We could justify our performance, know what to expect from co-workers, and take some pride in it. We were trustworthy and responsible. The public counted on us. What is so wrong with that? This was a career, not adult day care.
Funny, I managed to survive all this restriction pretty well for 40 years. Why is it so hard?
Last edited by Parnassia; 01-25-2018 at 08:04 PM..
If I have an appointment with someone... a customer, a partner, a coworker, a trainer, whatever... I need to be where I'm supposed to be, ready to go. That's "attendance" to me.
But, frequently, what they mean is, "We want you at your desk precisely at 8. Why? Not for any articulable reason, but because we're full of fear that we might lose a nickle." I refuse to work for anyone who watches the clock for the sake of watching the clock. If my work gets done, and an outside observer cannot describe the difference between it being done at 6AM, 8AM, or 10AM, then I'm not going to worry about what time I sit down or get up from my desk.
The thing you’re missing it’s that it’s not up to you to make the schedule. It is being made for you and you are scheduled to work from x to y time. So if the work starts at 8 am and ends at 5 pm that’s the time they expect you to be there.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RamonaSun
Yeah I’m thinking I won’t accept if they make an offer. The manager also mentioned something about how other people on the team come in at 6 or 7 but they aren’t scheduled until 8am.. uh why?
For all you know they are salaried employees and it’s expected. Lots of companies milk their salaried employees. I worked for a guy (found out after I hired on) he expected a minimum 6 am start 6 pm end. The money was absolutely insane but the dude was a task master shave driver. Probably the hardes5 guy I ever worked for. We used to go round and round. I was probably the only person who argued with him. But the company went from 10/15k a month in the red to 10k a month in the black. Regardless the dude was hard to work for. We parted ways a year later and I was glad to do so.
Quote:
Originally Posted by fbf2006
FYI, people should generally not be disclosing their medical issues at interviews anyway. I don't know why people keep asking that. Yes, I'm sure there are exceptions, but generally it really should not be disclosed.
Here is what I can tell you. Remember you have a probationary period after hiring.
Weeeell, maybe its rigid and maybe its not. Most of my jobs were, according to your description, old school/rigid. There were reasons. Maybe look at it a different way:
No cell phones in use at your desk. We had an office-supplied land line for business calls, but it was acceptable to use this phone for a personal call (both getting one or making one) as long as it wasn't excessive. If we had control of when the call happened, we were asked to use lunch or a break for a personal call. This does not mean you couldn't deal with an unplanned call for any reason. The point was, you are being paid to work, so spend your time on work. If something significant came up, you were expected to let your supervisor know and some arrangement would be worked out. 99.9 percent of the time there was no problem.
We had office-supplied desktops/laptops with internet, but again, if you wanted to use it for personal stuff you were expected to do this during breaks, lunch, before or after your work hours. The company was paying for YOUR access remember. Now no one actively spied on everyone to make sure they weren't sneaking online to shop or chat, but the point was made. As before, you are being paid to work on company business, so do company business. If someone abused it and spent hours doing their own web browsing, their work was not being done or done well. They would be reprimanded or fired. If anyone viewed illegal stuff, pornography, gambled, political extremism, hate speech, etc. they would be fired period. There were also security concerns and exposure of the office software and systems to cyber threats to consider.
Attendance. If you can't be at work on time you were expected to tell someone. Of course life happens and people would be late; weather, traffic, car trouble, family. Again, an adult knows how to call in, tell someone ahead of time, subtract the missing time from their payroll, or make it up another time. If you had an appointment during work hours, arrange that ahead of time. Simple. We weren't prisoners, but we were answerable to others. We usually filled out our time on the honor system. If someone was caught falsifying their time, reprimand and/or firing. Its not rocket science to be honest, plan ahead, or inform someone when there's a problem. The vast majority of the time there was no problem at all. The point was, keep people informed.
For all my jobs like this, most of it was the expectation that you are a responsible adult who can control your own urges and impulses. You are being paid for a specific set of work during a set amount of hours, so you work them. You are not being paid or supported so you can conduct your social life at the expense of an employer. The managers are all answerable to another layer. Your department is responsible for working within a payroll budget. Time is money. If you waste time or cheat on time, the company suffers and so do you. Most of my jobs were government-funded....taxpayer funded. Do you expect the taxpayers to tolerate employees who don't do their jobs? Are you answerable to family? To friends? To children? Don't you behave in a responsible manner to them? Why is a job any different?
OK, the jobs were rigid. However, every employee knew who to count on. Everyone worked hard, and cared about what they did. We could justify our performance, know what to expect from co-workers, and take some pride in it. We were trustworthy and responsible. The public counted on us. What is so wrong with that? This was a career, not adult day care.
Funny, I managed to survive all this restriction pretty well for 40 years. Why is it so hard?
I used to have jobs like that years ago. That has fallen out of favor. Even 22 year olds in entry level jobs have more flexibility now.
One of the things that you give up is being 100% checked out when you leave the building. Having the flexibility to run out in the middle of the day for a walk to clear my head. Or come in late due to an appointment or leave early because I have a volunteer commitment is well worth it to me.
Location: Removing a snake out of the neighbor's washing machine
3,095 posts, read 2,073,354 times
Reputation: 2305
Quote:
Originally Posted by Left-handed
If they're paid hourly, then maybe they do it for the extra $$$. Otherwise, that just sounds dumb.
Uh, this is the United States of America. '9 To 5' is just a song on the radio, even with regards to actual office type work hours. Most people who work in offices, except maybe menial clerical roles, either come in much earlier and leave at five, or, come in at nine and stay way beyond five pm.
It's the only way to get by nowadays, plus, it 'shows initiative' to your bosses, whatever the F- that means!
I had an interview today with a company very close to my home. My current job is only part time because my hours were cut. I applied to this new company because it would cut down my commute significantly.
But I have some concerns. I'm used to working for a flexible boss and laid back office culture. I have to move on because I need full time. My concerns with this new company are that they are "old school." The manager brought up today that they don't allow cell phones on the desk. Really? I'm not one of those people that uses my phone all day during work. No going on the internet. And she brought up how important attendance is - I take that to mean they aren't very flexible. I wouldn't expect to take time off on a regular basis. For medical reasons I go to the Dr. twice a month. Which means I would be late two mornings a month.
I have worked for companies that allow me to use the internet as long as my work is done. I haven't been told I couldn't have my cell phone out since my first job out of high school. I'm 35. I don't know maybe I have had it too easy? It just seems like a really rigid work culture. Red Flags? Or have I been spoiled?
Personally I would not take this job. However, as management I do understand the issue with phones AND the internet. I'm sure we lose tens of hours a week of people abusing both. I keep expecting that people are going to act grown-up and believe we shouldn't have to monitor them as if they were in kindergarten! Our company is easy going - we have enough days off, are flexible if someone needs to go to the doctor, pick up their child, etc. We are also very family-friendly - allowing for unexpected snow days/school closings/delayed openings, sick child, etc. I hope it works out for you.
Yeah I’m thinking I won’t accept if they make an offer. The manager also mentioned something about how other people on the team come in at 6 or 7 but they aren’t scheduled until 8am.. uh why?
Run, don't walk, far far away. From what you've described, the poor soul who takes this job will be in a world of regret within 3 months.
Employers get away with this BS only as long as they're able to reel in willing victims.
Weeeell, maybe its rigid and maybe its not. Most of my jobs were, according to your description, old school/rigid. There were reasons. Maybe look at it a different way:
No cell phones in use at your desk. We had an office-supplied land line for business calls, but it was acceptable to use this phone for a personal call (both getting one or making one) as long as it wasn't excessive. If we had control of when the call happened, we were asked to use lunch or a break for a personal call. This does not mean you couldn't deal with an unplanned call for any reason. The point was, you are being paid to work, so spend your time on work. If something significant came up, you were expected to let your supervisor know and some arrangement would be worked out. 99.9 percent of the time there was no problem.
We had office-supplied desktops/laptops with internet, but again, if you wanted to use it for personal stuff you were expected to do this during breaks, lunch, before or after your work hours. The company was paying for YOUR access remember. Now no one actively spied on everyone to make sure they weren't sneaking online to shop or chat, but the point was made. As before, you are being paid to work on company business, so do company business. If someone abused it and spent hours doing their own web browsing, their work was not being done or done well. They would be reprimanded or fired. If anyone viewed illegal stuff, pornography, gambled, political extremism, hate speech, etc. they would be fired period. There were also security concerns and exposure of the office software and systems to cyber threats to consider.
Attendance. If you can't be at work on time you were expected to tell someone. Of course life happens and people would be late; weather, traffic, car trouble, family. Again, an adult knows how to call in, tell someone ahead of time, subtract the missing time from their payroll, or make it up another time. If you had an appointment during work hours, arrange that ahead of time. Simple. We weren't prisoners, but we were answerable to others. We usually filled out our time on the honor system. If someone was caught falsifying their time, reprimand and/or firing. Its not rocket science to be honest, plan ahead, or inform someone when there's a problem. The vast majority of the time there was no problem at all. The point was, keep people informed.
For all my jobs like this, most of it was the expectation that you are a responsible adult who can control your own urges and impulses. You are being paid for a specific set of work during a set amount of hours, so you work them. You are not being paid or supported so you can conduct your social life at the expense of an employer. The managers are all answerable to another layer. Your department is responsible for working within a payroll budget. Time is money. If you waste time or cheat on time, the company suffers and so do you. Most of my jobs were government-funded....taxpayer funded. Do you expect the taxpayers to tolerate employees who don't do their jobs? Are you answerable to family? To friends? To children? Don't you behave in a responsible manner to them? Why is a job any different?
OK, the jobs were rigid. However, every employee knew who to count on. Everyone worked hard, and cared about what they did. We could justify our performance, know what to expect from co-workers, and take some pride in it. We were trustworthy and responsible. The public counted on us. What is so wrong with that? This was a career, not adult day care.
Funny, I managed to survive all this restriction pretty well for 40 years. Why is it so hard?
Obviously, it's a given to show up to work on time every day and to actually work during your scheduled hours.
The fact that they actually harped on it implies that they're likely unreasonably over-the-top micromanagers, and they're using obviously-understood expectations as euphemisms to warn prospective hires beforehand.
It's also a given to not be obnoxiously argumentative with your manager, but what would you honestly think if a hiring manager outright said, "We don't tolerate questioning your superiors. You are to do what you're told when you're told"...?
Depends on what kind of job it is. I've got 10 years in with my company and my job is kind of creative in nature with a lot of deadlines. I work from home and use my personal cell phone as my work phone. My schedule is my own. I'm on the internet all the time because my job requires me to do research on it. I have a personal computer set up at my desk in addition to my work computer where I do personal internet surfing and keep up with FB and post on C-D, lol - there's a lot of down time while I wait for coworkers to get things to me. I mostly come and go as I please. But the other side of that coin is that often my job needs me to work beyond my scheduled hours and I have a decade of successful track record behind me during which I went above and beyond. I regularly reschedule my personal activities to accommodate my job. I regularly work late into the night to meet deadlines and don't get paid overtime. I usually end up the year with 50% of my vacation time unused or crammed in during the last weeks of the year. And despite my boss's encouragement to unplug, I check my email regularly during vacations so that I will not be broadsided by anything when I return.
That's the tradeoff. I LOVE my job, my coworkers and the pay is decent - moreover, the flexibility is pretty broad. But my company gets a lot of my time when it needs it, whether it's during scheduled working hours or not. When my current boss joined the company he was very much about schedules and I was regularly reprimanded for being late, but he let that go eventually because it just didn't fit the culture and that when I was 30 minutes late to sign in, it was usually because I'd put in an extra 2 hours the night before.
I prefer this, but I've built much of my life around my job. That's the tradeoff. If you want flexibility, that often comes with a ton of other expectations. I do 18 hour days sometimes and it's just what it is. No one thanks me for it - they just accept it as what I do. But they also don't question it when I take a 2-hour lunch one day or skip out early to go to an appointment. The company gets far more out of embracing flexibility than just what they pay me, basically.
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