Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Hopefully some momentum is building against this. It's not good for either Providence or Pawtucket.
^ I believe this is the first I have heard of the petition, and it gets reported by the Boston media? 3000 signatures is not many. But if this forum is any indication, almost nobody seems to be for taxpayer funding of a new stadium in Providence. It ought to trigger the sudden death of any politician's career who would hand over money to the team to build a stadium. This will likely be an interesting test of voter resolve.
^ I believe this is the first I have heard of the petition, and it gets reported by the Boston media? 3000 signatures is not many. But if this forum is any indication, almost nobody seems to be for taxpayer funding of a new stadium in Providence. It ought to trigger the sudden death of any politician's career who would hand over money to the team to build a stadium. This will likely be an interesting test of voter resolve.
I think it was done through MoveOn.org. I signed it.
I'm not shy about contacting public officials, so I sent a very polite email to Dominick J. Ruggerio, Majority Leader of the RI Senate opposing his move to bypass the City and to grant significant tax breaks to the wealthy owners. Got no response. Send another email supporting his plan: got a response.
It’s hard to believe — scratch that — it’s damned near impossible to believe that it would cost at least $65 million to renovate McCoy Stadium, as ownership suggested earlier this year, in order to bring it onto an even playing field with some other minor league ballparks. That’s the key phrase, for “other minor league ballparks†have the room and foundation to welcome other attractions. A micro beer tent. A kids zone beyond the right field wall. The types of surroundings that welcome baseball fans for a much longer spending session than the three-hours plus during which they’ll enter few other locales besides the welcoming gate at McCoy.
...
Maybe, just maybe, like the players it hosts every season, whether it’s time to make a trip to the Major League, or have that all-too familiar internal discussion about when is the right time to hang them up, it is time to move on from McCoy.
I found this article confusing. Is it the writer or the cartel which owns the PawSox concerned about the conditions in the neighborhood of McCoy stadium?
If neighborhoods were a factor in where to locate a team, or a reason for moving, certainly the Yankees would not only have NOT stayed in the South Bronx, they wouldn't have invested $1.4 billion for a new stadium adjacent to the old one. Of course, perhaps the team's ownership was able to look past the blighted neighborhood surrounding their new digs on East 161st becausethey they didn't have to finance one penny of the $1.4 billion cost: the taxpayers did.
This is farcical. Not Penny One for a stadium in PVD. And no poaching from a nearby RI city that's struggling. Only evil creatures kick a city, or a person, when they are down. If the team is to be as profitable as the owners suggest, then they can well afford to finance it and pay the capital costs, as well as paying for the land and associated taxes. Moochers.
Disclaimer: I don't claim to have any idea about the actual viability of this proposal, just something I liked when it popped into my head.
I'm one of the people who doesn't feel the attachment to McCoy that I know some others do. It's not a particularly remarkable stadium and it's not in a remarkable area (and I like Pawtucket). So I certainly wouldn't be among those mourning the loss of the current stadium. I grew up going to games there, but nothing about the ballpark itself stands out as worth saving in the same way that Wrigley, Fenway, and locally, Cardines Field are.
At the same time, I'm not in love with the downtown Providence proposal as initially pitched. Don't get me wrong, I think a riverfront stadium in Providence would be great if executed properly and certainly wouldn't oppose it. However, the current proposal seems like complete junk. A faux lighthouse? A complete ripoff of Gillette Stadium's faux lighthouse (Gillette, btw, was fully privately funded). Lighthouses are a little too cliche New England for my tastes. Fake ones and replicas are everywhere. It would work if you're building a harborfront field in Newport, but this is Providence- its bones are industrial. Highlight that.
I don't, however, see why you can't have the best of both worlds. Build a new stadium in a downtown location. Downtown Pawtucket. Specifically, the location of the Apex Department Store in Pawtucket. I understand that Apex still runs some office and retail operations out of that facility. While you could potentially demolish the building completely and use the riverfront site, I think the PawSox could be a little more creative than that.
Preserve the building, at least part of it (specifically the pyramid), and use some of the remaining interior space as part of the concessions/souvenir/office/first aid, etc. under the seating bowl (which would abut the exterior of the building or even cut into it). Build a public river walk along the river behind the stadium open to everyone (not just ticket holders), and have entrances to the stadium along the river walk (so ticket holders can step outside or enter from the river walk). Allow vendors (like food trucks) to setup along the river walk on game days (and any other time if there's demand).
A few points/notes on my proposal: 1) Keeping space in any (renovation or teardown and rebuild) proposal for Apex's office and retail operations should be mandatory. Not only does this help a local business, but it makes sure that the stadium site is active 24/7. Not just on game days.
2) The tight space and renovation (a la Petco Park or Camden Yards) should create for a quirky field layout which will give the park a little character. Something sorely lacking in most new ballparks.
3) The proximity to the highway and downtown Pawtucket is perfect. A garage could be built either under the stadium or across the street where George's Games and Music is located (preferably with street level retail).
4) Walking distance to the Pawtucket transit hub is ideal. Perhaps even better if/when a light rail line is completed. A future Commuter Rail stop could have a shuttle (although the walk wouldn't be terrible either).
5) The benefits for downtown businesses could be good. Pawtucket has great bones and a waterfront location downtown could be conducive to more pedestrian activity than the current location. It could even give downtown Pawtucket a little shot in the arm.
6) Maybe a pedestrian bridge between the stadium and Jenks Way (connecting at the newish little riverfront park there)? That would show Providence that Pawtucket can get their pedestrian bridge over the river done in a timely fashion.
*Edit* After looking at google Earth, I don't know if it would be possible to renovate the current building and still have enough room for a baseball field. Maybe the pyramid could be moved to a spot on the site that leaves room for the field or an entirely new part constructed with nods to either Apex or the industrial heritage of the city (how about smokestacks instead of lighthouses... or a big water wheel in Center Field). There's still room for Apex's office and retail operations, the site would just have to be realigned to accommodate the field.
I think that the Boston Red Sox are just playing gamesmanship with Rhode Island. They have the resources to build a minor league ballpark on that site with private money. It's reasonable to ask for state money to improve the road infrastructure around the ballpark. It's reasonable to ask the city for a property tax waiver for at least a couple of decades given what it would do to property values of adjacent real estate. I think it's reasonable to allow the Red Sox to tap into the tax-free municipal bond market to fund the stadium at very low interest rates but the Red Sox would be on the hook to repay the loan or they forfeit the new stadium.
I'd love to be able to make a day of it caching a AAA game and doing the walk around, spend money in Providence thing. Pawtucket is in-and-out. I don't spend a dime other than a few bucks to park on the lawn/driveway of some hell-hole house near the ballpark, a ticket to the game purchased online, and concessions at the ballpark.
Location: Earth, a nice neighborhood in the Milky Way
3,791 posts, read 2,696,474 times
Reputation: 1609
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeoffD
I think that the Boston Red Sox are just playing gamesmanship with Rhode Island. They have the resources to build a minor league ballpark on that site with private money. It's reasonable to ask for state money to improve the road infrastructure around the ballpark. It's reasonable to ask the city for a property tax waiver for at least a couple of decades given what it would do to property values of adjacent real estate. I think it's reasonable to allow the Red Sox to tap into the tax-free municipal bond market to fund the stadium at very low interest rates but the Red Sox would be on the hook to repay the loan or they forfeit the new stadium.
I'd love to be able to make a day of it caching a AAA game and doing the walk around, spend money in Providence thing. Pawtucket is in-and-out. I don't spend a dime other than a few bucks to park on the lawn/driveway of some hell-hole house near the ballpark, a ticket to the game purchased online, and concessions at the ballpark.
I agree that the Red Sox have the resources to build the ballpark with private money.
I disagree with the part of your post in bold. I think it is reasonable to ask a developer to make an upfront payment to fund the infrastructure. Why should the public bear the brunt of the cost for private enterprise to make profit? Do you really think Providence will recoup the expenses and taxes by increased property values surrounding the park? I don't.
I also don't see much of a win for the city of Providence to capture a minor league ball club. It hardly seems like highest and best use of the land. From a development perspective, I think neighboring properties could see higher appreciation from a different use of the land the Paw Sox want, not a ballpark which sits unused for months of the year.
As a taxpayer of Providence, I don't agree with giving them a decades long tax holiday when we will be expected to provide basic services such as police and fire, let alone the cost of the infrastructure.
What exactly is Providence going to do with the stadium should the team default? What is Pawtucket going to do with McCoy now that the team plans to default on their lease agreement? The word is that they'll tear it down because there is no other purpose for it. Why should Providence expect any different outcome?
As to the argument that people going to a Providence ballpark will spend more money than they do in Pawtucket: it seems it is mostly the families who go to minor league games who are squawking about the loss of a family friendly atmosphere, which you can read as a fear of increased prices. People who are so price sensitive are unlikely to spend much more money in Providence than they do in Pawtucket. It's a specious argument, unless you can somehow shift the demographics of the fan base to the wealthier set.
Don't forget this is minor league ball we are talking about. I don't see a major draw of wealthier fans; minor league baseball is practically synonymous with family outing. If we were talking about a major league team, the validity of the argument changes.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
