A question about being gay. (ghosts, pastor, ceremony, prayer)

[lambene]

I do wish to ask a question.

Please remember only way to get info is to ask!!

I understand wanting the "civic right" of a legal union but why (especially those who do not believe in God) would you want a marriage? Is that not a religious ceremony?

[sanspeur]

No, it's not. It is a legal contract, (ceremony optional) I was married once in church and once in the city clerks office.

[justme58]

On being different yet wanting the same rights.

This in a nutshell is a moot argument.

Folk want to be accepted for who they are in spite of their differences.

One could draw a parallel to the civil rights movement but that has been debated to death and there are of course in the self same beneficiaries of these altered laws, those that would deny other minorities the same rights based ironically enough on the same bible that kept them as 2nd class citizens in the first place.

At the end of the day, if your god is real and the way the alleged covenant is read, it is after all up to this god to be the judge and vindicator. If a belief/threat of some type of eternal punishment keeps you on the straight and narrow, have at it.

It is only when folk want to impose their beliefs on others that we arrive at this head banging stage.

Keep the beliefs in your faith and churches and leave those that do not adhere to them alone. Most atheists are ex christian and likely know the scriptures better than most theists so quote mining and walls of scripture is usually gleaned over.

Now when the ghey come into your sanctuaries and demand they get equal rights withing the confines of said sanctuary, by all means complain about it, I am sure they are happy to join a church of form one where they will be accepted if so inclined

I think this pic sums it up pretty good.

[Sir Les]

Originally Posted by lambene

You are correct about STD's not being a delusion but STD's are not effecting just the gay community!! Most people will tell you STD's are caused by promiscuity and I will tell you that promiscuity is looked down upon as much if not more in the gay community due to the horrific pan STD's such as aids has caused the gay community.

You said "God doesn't like certain kinds of behavior" I agree but would you include JUDGING OTHERS in the list of behaviors that God does not like?

You said "Wow...Look here...I was talking about Gay idealizium...they claim to be different...but want the same things as others not like them..." Again I agree different people should get different things. A man robing a house to buy drugs...10years manual labor. A man stealing fruit out of an orchard to feed his family....a job. A young person just coming in to there field/trade $13/hr. A person in the same field of work for 20 years $26/hr. But dont you think every person in the world deserves respect. Heck a murder was one of Jesus disciples.

John 3:16
16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son,that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

In every Bible I have looked it does not exclude any person WHAT SO EVER AT ALL including gay people.

If you believe in the bible and if you believe homosexual acts are a sin then if you ever speed it is a sin if you ever think about a woman who is married or if you are married and you think about any woman other then your wife, if you ever eat more then you need (gluttony)
James 2:10 For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it.

I have broke all of it. Every day I try to do my best that is all we can do.

If you are going to use "Gods word" please do it in context,not just 3 or 4 words together to suit what you want
"Bible says to purify
To be holy
To be clean
To be respectful
To be mild and loving...."
and please PLEASE read what you wright...are you being respectful mild and loving or are you judging?

I know STDs are not just effecting the gay community....they effect all who practice sex...Sex is not Love if STDs are out there for doing it...cause STDs kill or cause suffering....is Love about making suffering?
And it is transmitted through blood as well...making the innocent infected...and it is passed on into the born children...so it continues.....so we have to be mindful of the whole...Love is sometimes bitter truth...some do not want to swallow....but there it is, or should I say here it is...

So sexual lud and unclean practices not only in the flesh (bodily sins of the flesh) But mental sin (sin of the mind) which also defiles the pure spirit of self...as we are all born into sin...and from what I have read we are all guilty of it...if we hold the ingraven imaged thing, and worship it for our livelyhood....and taxed to uphold sin or Evil or lies and liars...(which to my mind is the breaking of not only the covenants, precepts, and laws of God, but commonsense itself) making a violant and bloodsoaked world order...that is disorder...do we see these things in our present day world order that is truly disorder?

Have we been watching the news of late?
The banks corruption...the big business fraud...the economic turn after WTC 9/11...and the Governments of the world stands/obligations/contrabutions of the pollution of the earth, and global warming , violant weather, and plagues of virus and bacteria which are wrecking havock on randum areas round the world....all the world is experiencing these things of woe or wrath...delusional?

Well it also says in the Bible that God is patient, and slow to anger...

And I have underlined this in My bible book many times over..."Woe to them who harm the Earth"

So who is testing it?

DO we have woe?.....I'd say yes!

But don;t believe me...listen to the news...they are saying it...and from my experience in hospital...many are suffering!

So to be prudent...it would serve our best interest to stop having sex all together...
And make ourselves as clean as possible...inside out...
That means we stop being Gay , Lesbians, transgender, beastyality driven, and even Hetral...and stand as a virgin for a change...and see where that leads...six billion is a odd number
How does the square root of 2 make such a mess, and never figure out that there is only one Earth...and to make so many people we need more worlds first...more gardens first...more of everything...if we continue to make more of our selves...then eventaully it will come to fighting for a piece of something....be it water, land, air matterial things...too many people makes a problem...and because Humans so far do not like to change that ideal of ingraven imaged idol for God...God takes away his hand...and the idol doesn't solve for itself nor make more of what we truly need...nor can it make miracles......and they program everybody into the me me me buy buy buy...we will never know a sharing world completely.

Oh some will say Jesus was a communist...But we have to draw lines to what communist used...they also use the idol....so Jesus was more than a communist...he just shared everything with everybody..except those who did not believe...
See before Jesus preformed his miracles, he would always ask do you believe in the father God in heaven....and their reply would be yes...
And with that little faith...for they had sin...he was able to show them the power of God.

"Do no more sin and be forgiven" he said that to the prostitute who was about to be stoned....what was her sin?...and what were the sins of the ones who wanted to stone her?
And even though she had sin...Jesus who was with out sin..did not cast a stone...he forgave her...for the true sin or root of sin..was employed by $atan and the ingraven image on the coins of Rome which were being made way too important...for life..Thus she had to make Money to pay the tax or die!
And this idea or ideal has transgressed itself and mutated over time to this generation.
Still using it...still being born into it...or under its control?...still saying it is going to change....but it never does!
Always asking for humansacrifices...and making the enemy, a painted criminal... and then destroying it with lies...to cover the true identity of the instigators and oppressors dirty laundry.

I tell you money creates destitution...so when a terrorist blows something up...blame it on the oppressors of their trade.
When a soldier dies...blame him for putting him or her or themselves into harms way!

And draw straight lines...do not make acceptions where acceptions are not needed.
Wedlock for man and woman should be holy and kept for that purpose...no acceptions...for it blesses the two /man and woman and joins them back to the first spirit Adam...and any family that comes forth from the pairing of correctness...so the offspring are blessed under the God of creation...keeping it pure or making it sound.
That is incestual...no doubt....but As this God can make miracles...this is one!
And because the church has been defiled and infiltrated by the demonic...they no longer bless, but curse the wedded....so more demons can be born through the wedlock...

as it is....already been brought into view the Gays and lesbians and pedophiles in the churches...

Now why would these acts show a definition of defiling in a religion which is harmless or does not acknolage then as being acceptable to God, through their belief system?
Because there is truth in it about God...and thus it is a target of the demons to hide that truth...defile it...make it unholy...make it anti..opposite..to make it debatable...to change it...when we know truth cannot be changed...and proof is in the pudding....if God is eternal...sickness and suffering are not his way...for these things bring Death or sorrows...God is a god of life...God is....and nothing can remove God...nothing will change God...because God is truth...Truth is always true!

Well that is the spiritual part....can you see it in these terms?

And the demonica of which I speak is acting it out in the flesh....

Control of the mind, body, and spirit is part of the lesson Jesus was teaching....and he is still teaching after his death...
I can see part of that evil spirit in my reality....

Jesus says let them be....so we know their fruits, and have proof enough for ourselves, that sexual ludness is aborant to God in any state of practice....for God is the maker of life....if we continue to be born under the idol told not to make or have...and it is being forced...then God has no choice but to destroy it....and thus you have Rev 18:00 - 24 to examin....Not my words...God's words....
I just happen to agree with them...in part, and in full respect...knowing that some of his words are missing, some are not his words, and some are lies the demonica have penciled into it...

Male and female joining do not make life...they make death as a constant in this reality.
And they make sin..continually with it..the root of all evil...that is specified in the Bible....
Look at the world and its history...under the IDol if ingraven imaged metal.
Nothing more than one big blood bath ......

And even today...instead of making peace in the world, by legalizing all plants and trade....they turn to warfare and murder...not seeking every possible way to make peace in the world...and in keeping with God's word about the Givens...Genesis 9:3....and to keep them clean Acts 10:15 and not to profane them in any way!

What change was OBama talking about?
His underware perhaps?...cause I don't see any change of merit yet....its the same old same old to me.

And we got gays and lesbians and others dancing down the streets saying we are proud to be able to do so....and even then they do not thank the Lord Jesus for what he has done for them to be..."Let the Evil be Evil, Let the filthy be filthy, let the holy be Holy, and the righteous still do right...my rewards are with me....Jesus said...
They denie Jesus, God, science, logics, and Love...real love...which corrects their error....but they do not want to be corrected...or gain forgiveness...

So...STDs are in fashion for the occasion...woe and wrath are coming more appearent...and to my mind they are well deserved!

And I draw my lines as to why....and it all comes back to the Biblical references I have pointed out in this thread.

Now to call me a bigot...isn't addressing the issue.
And name calling to beliitle me...only adds to my list of ackolades...
I like the name Sir...But not everyone will respect that...Just Like not everyone will respect God's title and possition.


Now about respect...respect God, respect his house of order, respect his house of cleanness, his house of holy...respect these things of his house...and you will have respect from God.
If you cannot respect these things...at least respect them who do...and leave them alone...Thus let them be....As Jesus says...let them be...Now respect that.

Love God...that is the best love...and Love governs respect....But not sexual ludness and lust...that is sin of the flesh...and it brings with it the possiblility of death through viral or bacterial agents God set in motion to curb the stupidity....because they do not listen to reason...or want to change or stop their sins.

Now Have I made it clear?

I can take any part of the Bible I want to make my points...and address the issues it already address before the issue was ....If you do not like my points of truth or bent words...You can ignor me..
But when i hit a home run...atleast count it as one!

Sir Les

[AxisMundi]

Originally Posted by Sir Les

Wow...Look here...I was talking about Gay idealizium...they claim to be different...but want the same things as others not like them...

Is it right?...I think Not...But I'm just one....If The Bible is anything of God's word and will....As Jesus Proclaimed it as being trustworthy and true....

Then God doesn't like certain kinds of behavior....and it seems he is aborant towards the likes of Gaydome...Calling it an abomonation, and the need to excitute those who practice it.

Jesus now says to let them be....why?
Well so we can draw lines to the outcomes and prove it for our selves!

Sexual ludness is a recipe for STDs....

Now that includes beastiality!

Draw those lines straight boys and girls...and others not Boys or girls...and then there are the others...

I know I have drawn mine right to the science that proves these stds are real...not a myth...not a delusion...not just in my head...

To be fore warned, is to be fore told.

A bigot calling me names, and a bigot proves nothing...in my mind

You have to do better than that....I have a long list of attributes that go beyond those little name...

Styx and stones...who wants to play stupid with STDs?...a sure way to die a horrible death...

Bible says to purify
To be holy
To be clean
To be respectful
To be mild and loving....
And then there is curcumsision...which is not of the flesh, but of the mind heart and spirit.

This keeps everything pure!

And so the demons created the pedophile to rape the children of God...and defile them...

Now who is forcing the issue?

I say...it is wrong to be Gay...it is not logical...it is not biologically sound...it is not clean.

However I understand brotherly and sisterly love...which has nothing to do with sexual copulation.
Maybe it is in this they error....maybe?

So Jesus says let em be......OK...but I still draw my lines to what I said...if they want to be different they should be different.
And their choices deem them incapable to have children....then they should not have any!...that is the choice...that is the sacrifice!
Yet still they take, or clain other peoples children as their own.
And they want to wed in a practice that is not for them...it is for man and woman...which they blatantly claim they are not...

So...why make acceptions?

Let the state marry them....that way it stays out of God's house...RESPECT THAT.

But No the pedophiles have infiltrated even the house of God....

So...I stand as being right....the truth however delusional it seems to some...is now being defiled by the demons...so no one gets to heaven...they have hidden, covered up, infiltrated, defiled, made unholy, and plain the things that are supose to mean something to Humankind...oaths...promises...respect...honour... valuor...truth...Love......all these things are failing and falling away...being made plain and worthless...

So Chaos can rule.




Sir Les

1. What does being different have to do with anything, especially when talking about basic Civil Rights?

2. We are not a Chrsitian theocracy, theonomy, or theodemocracy. While you are well within your rights to base your worldview on your scriptrues, you, and your relgiious fellows, have absolutely NO right to base discrimination and oppression on those scriptures in this Nation.

3. Anyone who attempts to compare pedoes to gays, or even brings them up in a discussion about homsoexuality, has instantly Epic Failed.

They are completely unrelated issues.

The same for beastiality.

[AxisMundi]

Originally Posted by lambene

I do wish to ask a question.

Please remember only way to get info is to ask!!

I understand wanting the "civic right" of a legal union but why (especially those who do not believe in God) would you want a marriage? Is that not a religious ceremony?

Marriage is a government institution that some people prefer to enact within a religious wedding cerimony.

Many people confuse the two, a wedding cerimony and marriage itself.

Marriage bestows over a thousand plus rights and privlages, from joint custody to power-of-attorny to visitation rights. Marriage bestows a familial bond stronger than any other, for legal purposes, essentially making your spouse the next of kin.

Both religious people, of any religion, and Atheists have always been able to gain the institution in this Nation since day one, whether using recognized clergy, a licensed Marriage Officiant, or a judge/justice of the peace. Religious wedding cerimonies have never been a legal requirement.

[lambene]

Originally Posted by AxisMundi

Marriage is a government institution that some people prefer to enact within a religious wedding cerimony.

Many people confuse the two, a wedding cerimony and marriage itself.

Marriage bestows over a thousand plus rights and privlages, from joint custody to power-of-attorny to visitation rights. Marriage bestows a familial bond stronger than any other, for legal purposes, essentially making your spouse the next of kin.

Both religious people, of any religion, and Atheists have always been able to gain the institution in this Nation since day one, whether using recognized clergy, a licensed Marriage Officiant, or a judge/justice of the peace. Religious wedding cerimonies have never been a legal requirement.

I see what you are saying. But from my research no mater the vernacular you use ªLike with the Greeks, Roman marriage and divorce required no specific government or religious approval.ªBoth marriage and divorce could happen by simple mutual agreement.
I am wondering if cerimonys with religious intent were started as yet another way to get funding??
I do as stated understand wanting all the legal rights that come with it but I never understood people that don't believe in God wanting a "Marriage"

For gay people is it just a matter of: "We just want the same legal rights that come with the title"
or "Ha because you get it we want it to"?



ª(Magnus Hirschfeld Archive of Sexology)

[sanspeur]

Why do you ask questions that you already think you know the answers to?

For gay people is it just a matter of: "We just want the same legal rights that come with the title"
or "Ha because you get it we want it to"?

Why don't you answer this yourself? I'm beginning to suspect your motives here

[AxisMundi]

Originally Posted by lambene

I see what you are saying. But from my research no mater the vernacular you use ªLike with the Greeks, Roman marriage and divorce required no specific government or religious approval.ªBoth marriage and divorce could happen by simple mutual agreement.
I am wondering if cerimonys with religious intent were started as yet another way to get funding??
I do as stated understand wanting all the legal rights that come with it but I never understood people that don't believe in God wanting a "Marriage"

For gay people is it just a matter of: "We just want the same legal rights that come with the title"
or "Ha because you get it we want it to"?



ª(Magnus Hirschfeld Archive of Sexology)

There are several reasons for marriage. Love, according to some authors, didn't become a part of the equation until quite recently in human hsitory, the Renaissance specifically when French poets took up that cause of love.

Before then (and still in some areas), it was a way to cement political ties, and/or further a family's power in society. The proverbial "arranged marriage".

Marriage also predates Jehovah by millenium, and examples can be found among ancient writtings from China to Egypt to the pre-Christian Nordic Sagas.

Marriage itself is far older than the Judeo-Christian religions and can be found in cultures around the world.

Neither Christianity nor your parent religion, Judeism, invented the concept, though the specific term for the institution, ei "marriage", was developed in the 14th century Europe. However, the term applies to all forms of marriage as well.

As for motivations, I imagine these are as variable as the estimated 30 million among the GLBT community. However, this is moot as a Civil Right is being denied a minority of US adult citizens for no legitimate reason.

[lambene]

Originally Posted by AxisMundi

There are several reasons for marriage. Love, according to some authors, didn't become a part of the equation until quite recently in human hsitory, the Renaissance specifically when French poets took up that cause of love.

Before then (and still in some areas), it was a way to cement political ties, and/or further a family's power in society. The proverbial "arranged marriage".

Marriage also predates Jehovah by millenium, and examples can be found among ancient writtings from China to Egypt to the pre-Christian Nordic Sagas.

Marriage itself is far older than the Judeo-Christian religions and can be found in cultures around the world.

Neither Christianity nor your parent religion, Judeism, invented the concept, though the specific term for the institution, ei "marriage", was developed in the 14th century Europe. However, the term applies to all forms of marriage as well.

As for motivations, I imagine these are as variable as the estimated 30 million among the GLBT community. However, this is moot as a Civil Right is being denied a minority of US adult citizens for no legitimate reason.

I agree verry much about the history of "marriage". I was just pointing out that clergy might have made it "Necessary" for them to be involved for a financial reason. LOL I know marriage dates back as far as we can tell. In my opinion I do not need a "Man of the cloth" in order for me to go to God about anything. Whether it is prayer, forgiveness of sin, or marriage.

I also was not answering my own question I was trying to put my self in your shoes (Empathy) and those are the 2 main reasons I could come up with. Again it boils down to a matter of respect!!

I on top of it all agree that ALL the same legal rights should be afforded a "gay" and "straight" union of what ever type you wish to call it. That point is a fundamental truth that is an abomination to are humanity for being ignored!!!!
Can I be any more clear on this point?