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What is a gay person?...If the person being gay claims his lusting or desire is for the same sex...what sex is it they desire...and what sex are they proclaiming to be?
Now we only have three types of humaniod bodies...hermaphrodite, male, and female.
If a gay Male is not a male in his own mind
I think this is a bit of an assumption. Gay men are often people who did not see themselves as "like other men" even from youth, but it's not universal and I don't think I'd say a gay man is generally "not a male in his own mind."
You seem to be mixing being gay with being transgendered and although there is some overlap it's not a hundred-percent. A minority of gay men throughout history have been "hyper-masculine" and don't want the feminine thing in their life at all. You see this with some homosexual warriors of history and maybe the Village People
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Les
and wants the same sex partner, would it be of the same gay sexed individual, or would they truly desire a real male.
Gay men are still males generally speaking. Although I'm a chaste bisexual when I've experienced the desire for a man it's generally been for a "Manly Man." I'm not sure I've ever been attracted to a strongly effeminate man. When I'm attracted to an effeminate person it's a woman. Possibly if I were truly gay I'd feel different. (I have to admit I'm a bit surprised how openly I talk about this now, but maybe that's good)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Les
Now some people are just plain Evil...they Murder for fun...and they can be very charming and nice on first impressions.....Should I allow or condone their behavior because they like that lifestyle?
I used to think something like this, but it's not really fair. The desire to kill someone isn't like the desire to have consensual sex with them. I believe both can be wrong, but they are different.
From my religions perspective it is disordered because it is not procreative, does not have the natural complementarity of gender, and is directed in an abnormal way. There really isn't a perfect analogy to it, but I'd guess it'd be more like the self-harming behavior of some people with autism or alcoholics. From my religious perspective.
I have trouble following some of the rest of what you're saying.
Why do you even care if it is right or wrong? Just curious....do you have homosexual tendencies? If not it should be of no concern to you or to any other xtian for that matter if being gay is wrong. I mean after all, if your next door neighbor is gay it has no affect on you whatsoever and should be of no concern....you sound like a nice fellow though who really isn't even a die hard religious nut....good. don't be a nut!
An excellent site on the causes of homosexuality, history of homosexuality, demographics, and some of the main studies:
Science Hub at Isocrat.org (http://isocrat.org/science/#caus - broken link)
A Primer on using the Bible to condemn Homosexuals written by a Christian Church. (It even has big writing ) The Bible and Homosexuality
Essays and articles on a hermaneutical examination of the Bible and Homosexuality by a well educated evangelical Christian. Homosexuality and Christianity
The Bible and Homosexuality (from religioustolerance.org). Looks at conservative and liberal views, and examines what the Bible says (or doesn't say) about Homosexuality. THE BIBLE AND HOMOSEXUALITY
Now if you read all that, please come back tell us.
That also raises the question what % is "from birth" and what % is a environmental? Wow this is a charged discussion.
Here's a white-paper from the Log Cabin Republicans on the Science of Sexual Orientation which goes into more detail and includes data from some of the latest studies.
Only the religious right (which are neither) thinks there is a "gay gene".
They've been searching desperatly so they can "cure gayness".
If you really want to learn, as opposed to ridicule clinical research and science, apa.org is a good place to start.
This is not about ridicule, Monsieur Mundi, I'm just calling for an even playing field.
This is science and technology. Let's talk like Schrodinger's wave equations or Watsonian helical models.
They say a person is born gay. Where is the biological, geneticist, scientific proof. And we're talking proof, as a result of compulsive and comprehensive research, accepted by all and sundry, like the cross section of my freaking respiratory system which every scientist in the world will agree with a microscopic photograph.
Answer, there is none. Good luck finding it. Until then, it's only a choice.
You fellas yap on and on about the proof of God. There's none. Point taken. But the shoe's on the other foot. So much for all the hoopla on your better intellect, belief in science, technological logic et abracadabra....
Let's separate matter from passionate opinions. Proof?
This is not about ridicule, Monsieur Mundi, I'm just calling for an even playing field.
This is science and technology. Let's talk like Schrodinger's wave equations or Watsonian helical models.
They say a person is born gay. Where is the biological, geneticist, scientific proof. And we're talking proof, as a result of compulsive and comprehensive research, accepted by all and sundry, like the cross section of my freaking respiratory system which every scientist in the world will agree with a microscopic photograph.
Answer, there is none. Good luck finding it. Until then, it's only a choice.
You fellas yap on and on about the proof of God. There's none. Point taken. But the shoe's on the other foot. So much for all the hoopla on your better intellect, belief in science, technological logic et abracadabra....
Let's separate matter from passionate opinions. Proof?
Go to a gay bar/club and CHOOSE to engage in any physical activity with one of the patrons, you can pick a good looking one too. Report back to us how that CHOICE worked - OK?
I know because I went to a gay club once, they had free booze ad infinitum from the rather high cover charge. Needless to say, I could only last an hour or so, did not gel with me as I am only interested in girls. It was a huuge turn-off but that is because I am hetero. Oh there were some real hot Lesbians there too but they were not interested in guys Geez that was a time warp back 30 years
This is not about ridicule, Monsieur Mundi, I'm just calling for an even playing field.
This is science and technology. Let's talk like Schrodinger's wave equations or Watsonian helical models.
They say a person is born gay. Where is the biological, geneticist, scientific proof. And we're talking proof, as a result of compulsive and comprehensive research, accepted by all and sundry, like the cross section of my freaking respiratory system which every scientist in the world will agree with a microscopic photograph.
Answer, there is none. Good luck finding it. Until then, it's only a choice.
I think this is something of a false dichotomy even if we're similar in faith.
Basically you seem to state "if a person is not born gay it is a choice" and I don't think those would be the only options.
For example I know of a man who had an ear burned off in a cooking accident as a small child. Missing that ear is neither a choice nor an accident of birth.
What if exposure to some chemical early in childhood "makes" a person gay? (I'm not saying I think that's what happens, I don't really know) Would this make it the person's "choice." How?
In almost cases I think choice is more in how you handle it. Although I'm not totally opposed to the idea someone somewhere could "choose" to be gay. I've read of enough Radical feminists who actually seemed to "try to be lesbian", as a political statement, that I can't rule out men could also do it. However I would say that as a rule people who "aspire to gayness" usually abandon it at some point.
This is not about ridicule, Monsieur Mundi, I'm just calling for an even playing field.
This is science and technology. Let's talk like Schrodinger's wave equations or Watsonian helical models.
They say a person is born gay. Where is the biological, geneticist, scientific proof. And we're talking proof, as a result of compulsive and comprehensive research, accepted by all and sundry, like the cross section of my freaking respiratory system which every scientist in the world will agree with a microscopic photograph.
Answer, there is none. Good luck finding it. Until then, it's only a choice.
You fellas yap on and on about the proof of God. There's none. Point taken. But the shoe's on the other foot. So much for all the hoopla on your better intellect, belief in science, technological logic et abracadabra....
Let's separate matter from passionate opinions. Proof?
Hello? Have you not read the links I posted in this thread?
Particularly this one?
This is not about ridicule, Monsieur Mundi, I'm just calling for an even playing field.
This is science and technology. Let's talk like Schrodinger's wave equations or Watsonian helical models.
They say a person is born gay. Where is the biological, geneticist, scientific proof. And we're talking proof, as a result of compulsive and comprehensive research, accepted by all and sundry, like the cross section of my freaking respiratory system which every scientist in the world will agree with a microscopic photograph.
Answer, there is none. Good luck finding it. Until then, it's only a choice.
You fellas yap on and on about the proof of God. There's none. Point taken. But the shoe's on the other foot. So much for all the hoopla on your better intellect, belief in science, technological logic et abracadabra....
Let's separate matter from passionate opinions. Proof?
By your "logic" heterosexuality is a choice.
Same "level playing field".
Since hetero is a choice, according to you, then gays, supposedly being a choice, shouldn't be descriminated against.
However, if you would like to investigate science, as opposed to unfounded bigotry, you can start at the link below.
Some things you say I don't agree with but this makes scene. For almost every good argument there is a good counter argument.
I don't know if being gay is wrong or not. I don't have all the answers. I do believe in God, I also have friends that are gay and friends that "sin" every day. I also sin quite frequently. Is everything I believe correct...NO. Is the Bible 100% correct...probably not I don't think it is but as I have stated out of every beliefe I have what is the chance I am 100% correct on all of then....lol not a chance. Each of us have our own tests and demons, whats yours?
I believe in the experement God is preforming...we humans are being perfected...by being immersed into sin...which was created by being disobediant to God...so in order to save his kingdom...God sent humans out of it...and placed them in a world where they would be in it...wild.
And in this wild state...Humans have managed to make some order in it...and order is logical...purification of the body mind and spirit is essental to a sound healthy life....
So God has given us some laws, some precepts, some covenants...that if followed to the letter...will help us live in this wild world, and help us prosper in it...
Break those laws, precepts and covenants...and trouble will soon be with us....
Now look at the sinning world under the IDol of Money...corruptions is its true face, and we are now seeing it face to face!
And what do the governments do...they pay them off to continue doing it..by putting everyone into more debt...
So as to enslave the next generation to the same old thing!
What Did God say about it, as the second commandment?...ah truth.
So if you do not believe in God...You do not want Truth...and truth is in the Bible to some extent...and lies have been added in, and some things taken away...to stop us from knowing...all Truth.
But Truth is not only in the Bible...Truth is in reality...if you open your eyes and see the inroads, and outroads of life...you can formulate truth.
Certain behavior creates sickness and suffering...it is created in the mind and the spirit...
And it effects the body.
So if God is experiementing with us trying to prefect something...it would go to understanding that he put us into a dish where certain things could be controlled if they get out of hand...Purging the unwanted to get the results and way of thinking that prospers the whole creation....
Gaydome is selfless...it is selfishness...it is the result of the me me me reality that the Idol is making...Not looking out for the whole, or complying to the God head.....Its ok?....Well Jesus says to let them be...and we have...but now they want wedlock, and children....What is debased mean to you?.....
They cannot have children...so they have to take someone elses..
And they are neither Man nor woman...and they want wedlock...in God's house?
What is defiling mean to you?
So..let us be mindful of what this spirit is trying to do..in making these holy things plain...they are defiling the house of God.
Something Jesus was trying to clean up.
And the root of it is Money or Idols....
So...who is in the wrong?...the thing being made God says is an abomonation, or the ones who make it?
Like Jesus says "YOUR making a den of robbers and thieves"...So the maker is at fault....and we are all at fault if we support and use the idol...
The whole world is decieved by it...
Many say we can do Good with it...but they fail to see what the idea creates as first attributes...and no matter how much you have of it...there is never enough of it to solve the problems it creates in the first degree!
And all the other evil spirits are with it...and so..who is making these abomonations?
everyone who has Money in their posession and in use stand up please!
Sir Les
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(I have to admit I'm a bit surprised how openly I talk about this now, but maybe that's good) 
Let me toss this out to the OP...
Geez that was a time warp back 30 years 
