Jesus Christ of the Gospels Never Existed. He's a Myth and I Can Prove It (Part 1). (historical, existence)
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And there's one of your clues that the "12" was just a literary contrivance. Wouldn't Paul have met more than 3 apostles while in Jerusalem? Four, five, maybe six? Maybe there were only 3 apostles in total. That would be in align with Clement saying, "The good apostles".
Or the Jesus mythos ended up being the most effective and appealing to the most people.
I find Jesus to be the most unappealing of all the mythical gods. Not only is he constantly talking out of both sides of his mouth but he condemns to hell anyone who doesn't believe in him. I find Buddha or Krishna much more appealing to worship than (shudder) Jaysus.
Remember, it was the Catholic Church that rammed Jesus down the people's throats for 1500 years threatening them with either death or torture if the people didn't profess them as Jesus' inerrant omnipotent representatives on earth. That's making Jesus "appealing" by brute force rather than by love. IMHO there's absolutely nothing lovable about Jesus at all.
Gldn, name a single secular historian from the 1st century who mentions Jesus of Nazareth that isn't controversial.
It is you that is dancing...and have done nothing but.
Your whole argument fails from the get-go, because you are working off a flawed premise.
You actually think there should exist 2000 year old writings about people that were of little note at the time...and that the lack of such would be proof of something to you.
If you ever come to realize how illogical and unreasonable that is...you will come to much greater understanding.
In fact...that written acknowledgment and accolades do not exist from then...yet He became the most epic, prolific, influential, and exalted human to ever live...says more about Him.
It is you that is dancing...and have done nothing but.
Your whole argument fails from the get-go, because you are working off a flawed premise.
You actually think there should exist 2000 year old writings about people that were of little note at the time...and that the lack of such would be proof of something to you.
If you ever come to realize how illogical and unreasonable that is...you will come to much greater understanding.
In fact...that written acknowledgment and accolades do not exist from then...yet He became the most epic, prolific, influential, and exalted human to ever live...says more about Him.
More dancing.
la de da.
Gldn, name a single secular historian from the 1st century who mentions Jesus of Nazareth that isn't controversial.
If you can't then man up and admit it. Any more lap dancing from you and I'm putting you back on ignore.
I find Jesus to be the most unappealing of all the mythical gods. Not only is he constantly talking out of both sides of his mouth but he condemns to hell anyone who doesn't believe in him. I find Buddha or Krishna much more appealing to worship than (shudder) Jaysus.
Remember, it was the Catholic Church that rammed Jesus down the people's throats for 1500 years threatening them with either death or torture if the people didn't profess them as Jesus' inerrant omnipotent representatives on earth. That's making Jesus "appealing" by brute force rather than by love. IMHO there's absolutely nothing lovable about Jesus at all.
Please keep in mind that Buddha was a man, not a god.
Well, when we're talking about the high school Clement attended, the girls he bedded, the fraternities he belonged to in university then yeah, I'd say those wouldn't be pertinent to his conversation in 1st Epistle. But the 11 apostles getting martyred??????? He mentions Peter, why not some of the others to bolster the faith of the people who he's writing to? Maybe because they were fabrications to adhere to some furshlugginer magic number the Jews were hip on when all this was evolving. Maybe because Clement didn't know a thing about nor had he ever heard of an Andrew, Simon, Thomas, et al because the gospels hadn't been written yet. With no written records to record what was happening it's anybody's guess who existed back then.
Yes, Clement would not know about later invented stories. My point is about what he does say, while ignoring things the people who he sent the letters to would already know, or things that were irrelevant to what Clement wanted to say.
And there's one of your clues that the "12" was just a literary contrivance.
Why? Paul says Peter was one of the three pillars, and that there was also a group known as the 12 (one for each tribe). This mirrors the structure the Essenes used. Then there would be lesser apostles, and 'brothers'.
The 12 disciples were a literary contrivance, that does not make the 12 (who were also probably apostles) are inventions.
Quote:
Originally Posted by thrillobyte
Wouldn't Paul have met more than 3 apostles while in Jerusalem? Four, five, maybe six? Maybe there were only 3 apostles in total. That would be in align with Clement saying, "The good apostles".
I can not speculate based on something I can not know. I can only use what Paul and Clement tells us.
It is you that is dancing...and have done nothing but.
Your whole argument fails from the get-go, because you are working off a flawed premise.
You actually think there should exist 2000 year old writings about people that were of little note at the time...and that the lack of such would be proof of something to you.
If you ever come to realize how illogical and unreasonable that is...you will come to much greater understanding.
In fact...that written acknowledgment and accolades do not exist from then...yet He became the most epic, prolific, influential, and exalted human to ever live...says more about Him.
Goodbye, Gldn.
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