Jesus Christ of the Gospels Never Existed. He's a Myth and I Can Prove It (Part 1). (Mormon, holidays)
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Virtually all scholars of antiquity agree that Jesus existed.[7][8][30] Historian Michael Grant asserts that if conventional standards of historical criticism are applied to the New Testament, "we can no more reject Jesus' existence than we can reject the existence of a mass of pagan personages whose reality as historical figures is never questioned."[31] There is no indication that writers in antiquity who opposed Christianity questioned the existence of Jesus.[32][33] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_Jesus
Except people are not using conventional standards of historical criticism. Also, there is indication that some people questioned the existence of Jesus. An example is 2 Peter, which is arguing against a sect of Christians who did just that.
Except people are not using conventional standards of historical criticism. Also, there is indication that some people questioned the existence of Jesus. An example is 2 Peter, which is arguing against a sect of Christians who did just that.
Actual historians who do Jesus studies are.
And 2 Peter which refers to Jesus as our Lord and Savior is not questioning the existence of Jesus. Perhaps you meant 2 John in which the writer of that short epistle is arguing against those who did not acknowledge Jesus as coming in the flesh. They didn't deny the existence of Jesus, they just denied that he was truly human while acknowledging his deity or divinity.
When I was 18 it was brought to my attention that there may come a day where I may be asked if I were a Christian. After giving that much thought I decided my answer would have to be, 'define Christian first, then I'll let you know if it applies'. Christ was sent to deliver 'all' of humanity; not just an elite group.
We have the words of King David concerning non-Jews (what you brought up) and by the end as the book goes we have (my response) John's Revelation --- unless applied appropriately one is just as disconcerting as the other.
And 2 Peter which refers to Jesus as our Lord and Savior is not questioning the existence of Jesus. Perhaps you meant 2 John in which the writer of that short epistle is arguing against those who did not acknowledge Jesus as coming in the flesh. They didn't deny the existence of Jesus, they just denied that he was truly human while acknowledging his deity or divinity.
Here's a little bit of what Jesus wrote through Mr. Padgett on June 7, 1915:
"I was not born with the knowledge that I was the son of God sent to earth to teach these great truths, or to announce to mankind the re-bestowal of the great gift of immortality, and the means of acquiring it. But this knowledge of my mission came to me after I became a man and had the frequent communions with God by my spiritual senses.
I was never in the presence of the Jewish priests, expounding to them the law and asking questions when about twelve years of age, as stated in the Bible, and not before my first appearance - after I became a man - did I attempt to show priest or layman that I was the messenger of the Father, and sent by Him to proclaim the glad tidings of immortality restored and of the Great Love of the Father (Divine Love), which was necessary to make all men at-one with Him and to give them a home in His Kingdom.
I never was a sinful boy or man and did not know what sin was in my heart; and strange as it may seem, I never sought to teach others these truths until after my mission was declared by John the Baptist.
In my boyhood days, I was the same as other boys and engaged in the plays of childhood and had the feelings of a child and never thought I was anything else than a child. In no wise way was I different from other children, except in the particular that l have named, and any account of me to the contrary is untrue."
The criteria for Jesus to exist is if a government secular historian recorded an event including a man named Jesus Christ. (I believed I named a couple, you swatted away for whatever reason) But your criteria is a tall order given to the nature of the culture of the first 30 years (1 century B.C.) I suspect you know this ...
My father told me stories of his upbringing when he was young. None of which is documented in any history book. I'm guess if I'm to follow your criteria for all things real I should be a skeptic of my father's words and if he told me the truth.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry Diogenes
I do not know which historians you named, but they would not have been swatted away for no reason. The evidence really is that bad.
For Jesus as a mere mortal, yes. Jesus as a miracle performing wonder worker would have been recorded, especially as we have writers like Pliny the Elder searching for stories of miracles, and Justus of Tiberias focusing on the area Jesus was meant to have done his miracles.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry Diogenes
I do not know which historians you named, but they would not have been swatted away for no reason. The evidence really is that bad.
For Jesus as a mere mortal, yes. Jesus as a miracle performing wonder worker would have been recorded, especially as we have writers like Pliny the Elder searching for stories of miracles, and Justus of Tiberias focusing on the area Jesus was meant to have done his miracles.
First you'd have to find when and where the miracles were being preformed, then locate the nearest 'secular' historian. (no one began putting stories to papyrus until 30 - 60 years after Christ's death and resurrection)
I was reading a story on Yemen a few years back and in the article some locals told in their area there was no sign of the war. In fact they said, if they hadn't been made aware of it by people talking about it, they wouldn't know it was happening.
Here's a little bit of what Jesus wrote through Mr. Padgett on June 7, 1915:
"I was not born with the knowledge that I was the son of God sent to earth to teach these great truths, or to announce to mankind the re-bestowal of the great gift of immortality, and the means of acquiring it. But this knowledge of my mission came to me after I became a man and had the frequent communions with God by my spiritual senses.
I was never in the presence of the Jewish priests, expounding to them the law and asking questions when about twelve years of age, as stated in the Bible, and not before my first appearance - after I became a man - did I attempt to show priest or layman that I was the messenger of the Father, and sent by Him to proclaim the glad tidings of immortality restored and of the Great Love of the Father (Divine Love), which was necessary to make all men at-one with Him and to give them a home in His Kingdom.
I never was a sinful boy or man and did not know what sin was in my heart; and strange as it may seem, I never sought to teach others these truths until after my mission was declared by John the Baptist.
In my boyhood days, I was the same as other boys and engaged in the plays of childhood and had the feelings of a child and never thought I was anything else than a child. In no wise way was I different from other children, except in the particular that l have named, and any account of me to the contrary is untrue."
I'm one of those who will, and have long ago told you, that what you believe to have been messages from Jesus to Padgett were either demonic impersonations of Jesus or deceptions on the part of Padgett. People believe all kinds of things.
Tell us the the name of a single secular historian who mentions the name "Jesus of Nazareth" in the 1st century that isn't controversial or questioned and I give my word I will not post part 2 of this topic.
Flavius Josephus but then since everything is controversial, I look forward to part II.
I'm one of those who will, and have long ago told you, that what you believe to have been messages from Jesus to Padgett were either demonic impersonations of Jesus or deceptions on the part of Padgett. People believe all kinds of things.
Ha! One day, I'll look you up in the next world and we'll compare notes.
I don't think a demon would write about Divine Love, because they don't have a clue what it is.
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