Do you reject God or not believe he exist? (Jewish, Christians, mercy)
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I agree, but in having it suggested as something we should find worthwhile today (and thereby supposedly making the Bible something we should take as guide) the idea of saying 'You can't accuse anyone of a wrong unless you have never done wrong yourself' plus 'Go, and sin no more' which can only work if you can rely on them doing so, strikes me as - crap.
So, you agree that in the context and time in which it may have been spoken, it was not crap.
As far as relevance in the here and now, like many things, it depends on how you understand and apply it. If it's crap to you, it's crap, and you're right to discard it. Other people can take away something from it for themselves that has worth.
So, you agree that in the context and time in which it may have been spoken, it was not crap.
No. Or at least in my view, it was also crap then. It might have had more relevance in a age where punishment was often harsh and lacking in justice, and there is the aspect of not so much wanting to let adulterers and prostitutes (whatever she was) off scot free but of making the Jewish teachers and Levites look foolish. But the principle simply will not work in practice. Then or now.
Crap then was essentially the same as crap now. we just dispose of it more efficiently, today.
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As far as relevance in the here and now, like many things, it depends on how you understand and apply it. If it's crap to you, it's crap, and you're right to discard it. Other people can take away something from it for themselves that has worth.
I can fit into a worldview, like many other stories, but in itself, it is nothing special to be taken as a guide for life and certainly no justification for Christianity, true or not, which seems often the argument behind finding valuable ideas in the Bible.
This is why I generally prefer to quote Peanuts, LOR and Star Trek, because the ideas you find there are just as good and sometimes not crap at all.
No. Or at least in my view, it was also crap then. It might have had more relevance in a age where punishment was often harsh and lacking in justice, and there is the aspect of not so much wanting to let adulterers and prostitutes (whatever she was) off scot free but of making the Jewish teachers and Levites look foolish. But the principle simply will not work in practice. Then or now.
Crap then was essentially the same as crap now. we just dispose of it more efficiently, today.
I disagree that in the context of the times/culture, it was crap. I've already stated my case for that, so I'll let it go.
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I can fit into a worldview, like many other stories, but in itself, it is nothing special to be taken as a guide for life and certainly no justification for Christianity, true or not, which seems often the argument behind finding valuable ideas in the Bible.
This is why I generally prefer to quote Peanuts, LOR and Star Trek, because the ideas you find there are just as good and sometimes not crap at all.
I'm no longer a Christian and have no desire to justify the [literal, fundamentalist-ish] brand of Christianity I was raised in. I find wisdom in many places, and that includes in some of the teachings of Jesus and in the the symbolism of the Jesus narrative itself. It overrides some harmful religious perceptions. The "don't cast stones"/ stop condemning others is an important one, as I see it.
Since you've never been religious, that may explain why it's all crap to you.
But it's not the narcissistic, mass-murdering, morally-vacant Abrahamic god found in your book. That god is custom-made for sociopaths to follow.
And they do.
Perfect way to explain my own beliefs.
Yes, there is a power in the universe....but it's not judgmental and it doesn't send us to eternal torment because we don't believe in and worship it. We are in charge of our beliefs/actions and we alone are responsible for our destiny and where we end up. No other being/force sends you anywhere.
You own beliefs/actions solely contribute to your well being (or lack thereof) in this life and beyond. You make your own bed for good or bad. Nobody sends you anywhere when you die....you simply gravitate towards and associate with those souls/beings who are same/similar to yourself. Like attracts like....it's about as simple as that. You should behave in a way and treat others like you'd like to be treated....because those will be your peers when you "move on"....you'll naturally gravitate towards them until your own beliefs and behavior changes enough to where you don't feel at home with them anymore.....than you'll move on to associate with those more like your current beliefs/actions. Those more advanced souls/beings are always willing to help those who wish to learn and progress on their spiritual path.
There is room for disagreement here....but these are my personal thoughts presently.
Yes, there is a power in the universe....but it's not judgmental and it doesn't send us to eternal torment because we don't believe in and worship it. We are in charge of our beliefs/actions and we alone are responsible for our destiny and where we end up. No other being/force sends you anywhere.
You own beliefs/actions solely contribute to your well being (or lack thereof) in this life and beyond. You make your own bed for good or bad. Nobody sends you anywhere when you die....you simply gravitate towards and associate with those souls/beings who are same/similar to yourself. Like attracts like....it's about as simple as that. You should behave in a way and treat others like you'd like to be treated....because those will be your peers when you "move on"....you'll naturally gravitate towards them until your own beliefs and behavior changes enough to where you don't feel at home with them anymore.....than you'll move on to associate with those more like your current beliefs/actions. Those more advanced souls/beings are always willing to help those who wish to learn and progress on their spiritual path.
There is room for disagreement here....but these are my personal thoughts presently.
I don't necessarily agree that there is some intelligent power in the universe or that we have souls that live on after we die ... but my disagreement is in a very mild form. While I can't quite bring myself to believe in something that just isn't really supported by evidence, this version of god and the afterlife is far and away more plausible than judgmental and wrathful gods sending people to heaven or hell - similar to camp commandants sending healthy male Jews to the right who will live to work and sending most women, children, the sick, and the old to the left where they will be immediately gassed.
I disagree that in the context of the times/culture, it was crap. I've already stated my case for that, so I'll let it go.
I'm no longer a Christian and have no desire to justify the [literal, fundamentalist-ish] brand of Christianity I was raised in. I find wisdom in many places, and that includes in some of the teachings of Jesus and in the the symbolism of the Jesus narrative itself. It overrides some harmful religious perceptions. The "don't cast stones"/ stop condemning others is an important one, as I see it.
Since you've never been religious, that may explain why it's all crap to you.
You may be right. I may want to find fault with it. Not least because the Codices can't decide whether it was Luke or John who wrote it. In its way it's a charming tale - so is the Nativity - that's crap, too - and teaches us to have understanding and mercy (Except about Jewish religious teachers). But looked at deeper, it does not stack up either as giving the gospels reliable credibility or good idea for living credibility. Covering his ass asked me and I said, and said why.
You may be right. I may want to find fault with it.
No, that's not what I meant. I mean, since the Jesus narrative overrides various religious principles (like condemning others in the name of God) which some of us were raised with but you were not, it may not really be of any importance to you, i.e., crap.
ETA: By the by, the story was brought up today in the Christian forum, and it is in that forum that the story has most relevance, I believe, because it is there that the principle needs to be applied, imo.
When it comes to the God of Abraham it seems that many people on here reject him, but it seems to be for different reasons. Some honestly do not believe that a god exists and that there is no reason to believe in one, but then you have another set of people who see God as being evil, contradictory or whatever other adjectives you can think of. So my question is, if you are not a believer, then where do you fit in? Do you reject God or do you just not believe he exist?
No, that's not what I meant. I mean, since the Jesus narrative overrides various religious principles (like condemning others in the name of God) which some of us were raised with but you were not, it may not really be of any importance to you, i.e., crap.
ETA: By the by, the story was brought up today in the Christian forum, and it is in that forum that the story has most relevance, I believe, because it is there that the principle needs to be applied, imo.
We are getting into the area of the purpose of the gospels. Today that episode is held up as mercy and forgiveness as distinct from applying religious law strictly. But to me it is just about bashing Jewish law and practice again and again and again.
And for me, as a lifetime non -Christian being asked whether I think the gospels .what did he ask?..
" Fine. Then there was no Jesus. So what do you think of the fictional guy's teachings?"
I said "Crap, mostly, and Jew-hating, frequently."
And this woman taken in adultery story was produced as an exception supposed to disprove my 'rule'. It does not. I stand by it - from my point of view, at least.
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