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View Poll Results: Do you support giving Ukraine F-16s
Yes 201 39.64%
No 257 50.69%
Unsure 49 9.66%
Voters: 507. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 12-02-2022, 09:12 AM
 
47,108 posts, read 26,237,226 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LM117 View Post
Lukashenko is very much aware that the only reason he's still in power is because Russia stepped in during the election protests in Belarus, and also that Russia's invasion of Ukraine is unpopular with Belarusians. He knows full well that sh*t would hit the fan and splatter all over his face if he attempted to join the war against Ukraine. It would be the end of his rule, if not himself personally, since Russia is not in much of a position to help prop him up this time.
He needs his armed forces outside the Presidential Palace, not in Ukraine. And he knows it.
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Old 12-02-2022, 09:16 AM
 
Location: Salisbury,NC
16,785 posts, read 8,283,545 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LM117 View Post
Russia is demanding that their land grabs be recognized before talks can begin.

Yeah....that ain't happenin', chief.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-63832151
Unconditional surrender only way to go with a Dictator.

That would mean Russians leaving Ukraine completely.
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Old 12-02-2022, 11:51 AM
 
8,996 posts, read 11,885,467 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boss View Post
Unconditional surrender only way to go with a Dictator.

That would mean Russians leaving Ukraine completely.
Not enough pressure has been applied to Russia to make that happen.
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Old 12-02-2022, 11:53 AM
 
1,718 posts, read 647,472 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DontH8Me View Post
Just read that Putin fell down the stairs and soiled his underoos. Whole lot of defecatin' goin' on.
Too bad he wasnt near a window when he fell. Maybe next time.
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Old 12-02-2022, 01:11 PM
bu2
 
24,248 posts, read 15,084,412 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dane_in_LA View Post
Russia meddled as best they could. Used the NRA to funnel money, all that.

Did it rise to the level of "conspiring", let alone "stealing an election"? No. But they've been trying their best to deepen the fractures.
But probably nothing new, just a little more of it. Mueller report showed that the Russians helped promote rallies for Trump, Sanders and Hillary Clinton, all three!
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Old 12-02-2022, 01:14 PM
bu2
 
24,248 posts, read 15,084,412 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davidt1 View Post
Not enough pressure has been applied to Russia to make that happen.
Ukraine can exhaust Russia and drive them out of Ukraine, but they don't have the capability to defeat them. Russia is way too big. They could never drive to Moscow.
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Old 12-02-2022, 01:52 PM
 
79,238 posts, read 61,361,367 times
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This is where it starts getting more interesting.

The pretense that Russia is going to come storming back is over, but it's going to get a lot stickier the closer to the Russian border they get.

Then toss in what happens if the Crimea is cut off and being lost?

I just think that politically, it's a giant catch-22.

Ukraine isn't going to cede anything to Russia that they can then call a victory...and Russia can't have taken such losses and cut a deal gaining them nothing.

On top of that, any deal that Ukraine cuts comes with the full expectation that unless they're part of NATO, Russia will try again in 5 years.
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Old 12-02-2022, 02:35 PM
 
Location: Salisbury,NC
16,785 posts, read 8,283,545 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bu2 View Post
Ukraine can exhaust Russia and drive them out of Ukraine, but they don't have the capability to defeat them. Russia is way too big. They could never drive to Moscow.
I agree that Russia is way too big. They do not need to take Moscow. They do need to kick the Russians out of Ukraine.

Russian Military is over stretched. They have troops all over the former USSR. Needing the Russian military to keep all the tin pot dictators in power and the ethnic groups from killing each other.

The Russians can be kicked out of Ukraine and force them to abandon Crimea. I do not think a negotiation for Crimea is possible anymore.
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Old 12-02-2022, 04:03 PM
 
51,743 posts, read 26,064,301 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathguy View Post
This is where it starts getting more interesting.

The pretense that Russia is going to come storming back is over, but it's going to get a lot stickier the closer to the Russian border they get.

Then toss in what happens if the Crimea is cut off and being lost?

I just think that politically, it's a giant catch-22.

Ukraine isn't going to cede anything to Russia that they can then call a victory...and Russia can't have taken such losses and cut a deal gaining them nothing.

On top of that, any deal that Ukraine cuts comes with the full expectation that unless they're part of NATO, Russia will try again in 5 years.
Pretty much.

Regardless of how this ends, unless the Russian military is destroyed, Russia will be back at in a few years.
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Old 12-02-2022, 04:06 PM
 
51,743 posts, read 26,064,301 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boss View Post
I agree that Russia is way too big. They do not need to take Moscow. They do need to kick the Russians out of Ukraine.

Russian Military is over stretched. They have troops all over the former USSR. Needing the Russian military to keep all the tin pot dictators in power and the ethnic groups from killing each other.

The Russians can be kicked out of Ukraine and force them to abandon Crimea. I do not think a negotiation for Crimea is possible anymore.
Will have to see how it all shakes out, but I think you're right about Crimea. At a certain point, any Russian soldier in Crimea will be a sitting duck
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